April 10, 1908

FIRST READINGS.


Bill (No. 153) to incorporate the Saskatchewan Power Company.-Mr. Mc-Craney. Bill (No. 154) respecting the Board of the Presbyterian College, Halifax.-Mr. Law. Bill (No. 155) respecting the Pontiac Central Railway Company.-Mr. Brown. Bill (No. 156) respecting the Northern Bank and Crown Bank of Canada.-Mr. Guthrie.


QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Mr. Speaker, before the orders of the day are called, I rise to a question of privilege. I am informed by a telegram from British Columbia that the Victoria ' Times ' has reported me as having opposed in a recent debate in this House legislation for the protection of white labour in British Columbia against Asiatic labour. I desire to say that that statement is absolutely and utterly untrue.

Topic:   QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.
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DEPARTMENT OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I would like to ask the Minister of Finance in the absence of the Prime Minister whether or not there is a departmental investigation proceeding in the Department of Marine and Fisheries, and whether that investigation is being carried on by the examination of witnesses under oath. The question was put the right lion, the First Minister yesterday who replied that he was unable to say. I venture to suggest that this matter is one on which the government should have some information and of which information the House should be possessed.

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

My right hon. colleague the First Minister left the House a moment ago to attend His Excellency in the Senate Chamber. In his absence I could not make any definite answer but my hon. friend will have his answer later.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Will the hon. gentleman be good enough to bring the matter to the attention of the First Minister ?

Topic:   DEPARTMENT OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

Certainly.

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THE ROYAL ASSENT.

LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland (Speaker of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I have the honour to inform the House that I have received from the secretary of His Excellency the Governor General the following communication:- [DOT]

Ottawa, April 10, 1908.

Sir,-I have the honour to inform you that His Excellency the Administrator, will proceed to the Senate Chamber this afternoon at 3.15 o'clock, for the purpose of assenting to such Bills as have passed the Senate and the House of Commons.

I have the honour to he, sir,

Your obedient servant,

J. HANBURY WILLIAMS, Colonel,

Governor General's Secretary.

The Hon.

The Speaker of the House of Commons.

A message was received from His Excellency the Administrator by the gentleman Usher of the Black Rod as follows:-

Mr. Speaker,-His Excellency the Administrator desires the immediate attendance of

your honourable House in the Chamber of the honourable the Senate.

Accordingly Mr. Speaker, with the House went up to the Senate Chamber.

And having returned.

Mr. SPEAKER informed the'House that his honour the deputy of His Excellency the Governor General had been pleased to give in His Majesty's name, the Royal Assent to the following Bills :-

An Act respecting the Atlantic, Quebec and Western Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the London and Lancashire Guarantee and Accident Company of Canada.

An Act to amend the Inland Revenue Act.

An Act to amend the Immigration Act.

An Act to amend the Act relating to Ocean Steamship Subsidies.

An Act to amend the Bills of Exchange Act.

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SUPPLY-THE BUDGET.


Mr. FIELDING moved that the House go in Committee of Supply.


CON

Herbert Sylvester Clements

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. H. S. CLEMENTS (West Kent).

the farmers in a position where they can make only 3 per cent upon their investment? I am aware that the western farmers do not favour protection upon manufactured goods. But I venture to make this statement, that if the western farmer was given the Canadian market for his products, possibly he would not be so averse to protection upon the manufactured goods which he has to buy. But he has a right to protest against more protection upon the goods, upon the implements which he is compelled to buy, at the same time that he has to sell his farm products at a much less price than he could get for them if he had the home market to himself. Now X have heard the statement, I think in one of the by-elections, that this government was a farmer's government. Well, Mr. Speaker, I think that is about the greatest joke that has ever been sprung in this country. Take for instance the French treaty. X would be one of the first to support our French compatriots in securing a treaty with France if I was sure we would be getting some benefit in return for the privileges which we give to France. But to my mind this French treaty is a one-sided treaty, beyond any doubt. Take agricultural products, they are practically prohibited in the French market, while at the same time we have to pay a large subsidy to steamship lines, and lose about $600,000 revenue yearly. I cannot see for my part how we are going to get any advantage from this treaty.

There is another grievance that we in Ontario complain of, particularly the manufacturers, and that is that we have to pay so heavy a duty upon our coal. Our manufacturing concerns, especially in the province of Ontario, where no coal fields have been opened up, are obliged to compete with manufacturers in districts where coal is plentiful. I should like to see, in the interest of the manufacturing industries of Ontario at least, coal placed on the free list, so as to enable these manufacturers to produce cheaper than they can at the present time. Such a change would not only be in the interest of the manufacturers themselves, but it would mean that the consumer, the farmer, the labourer and the mechanic would get the articles which he required at a lower rate. Take the case of gas companies, for instance ; the gas companies of this Dominion import yearly 170,000 tons of coal annually, upon which they have to pav a duty of 53 cents per ton. In the interest ot the gas companies, to say nothing of the farmers and the manufacturing concerns, it would be an advantage if we had free coal, because it will enable them to supply the consumer with a cheaper article.

The hon. Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Fisher) is held up to us as being a farmer himself and as having a personal knowledge Mr. CLEMENTS.

of the needs and interests of the farmers. I have nothing personal to say against the Minister of Agriculture only I think that he is deserving of censure because I do not think-that, as the minister representing the great body of agriculturists in Canada, he has not held out for their interests as he should have. I think the ministers in charge of other departments have rather outwitted him in that they have been able to get more money voted to be expended in their departments than the Minister of Agriculture has been able to secure to be expended in the interests of the farmers. Last year $5,500,000 were spent on the public works of the Dominion, whereas upon the great .agricultural class, which represents the most important interest in this Dominion, $500,000 was all that was spent. If the Minister of Agriculture would take into consideration the speech that wTas delivered by my hon. friend from Dundas (Mr. Broder) the other night, it would be well for the farming community, because, if he followed the advice of my hon. friend from Dundas, he would do justice to the farmers. It will be remembered that the hon. member for South Wellington (Mr. Guthrie) made the retort, during the course of my hon. friend's speech, that there was a difference between farmers, that one was a farmer and the other was an agriculturist. I would apply the term * agriculturist ' to the Minister of Agriculture, and if there is any one individual in this Dominion who has * done ' the farmers properly I believe it is the Minister of Agriculture who has so completely failed to look after their interests. The hon. member for South Wellington was in no sense justified in applying that term to my hon. friend from Dundas, because, as everyone in this House knows, my hon. friend from Dundas is an actual farmer. There is a large piping concern in the city of Guelph and I understand that the member for South Wellington has an interest in it. In this respect he has been playing the part of

* agriculturalist ' in so far as he has been

* doing ' the farmers of this Dominion. Lap-welded piping is largely used throughout the Dominion, especially by the farmers, and there is no lapwelded piping made in this country. Two years ago I gave expression to the belief that under these conditions lap-welded piping should come into the Canadian market free of duty so that it could be supplied to the farmers at the lowest cost. When any article is not manufactured in Canada, I care not what it is, it should come in practically duty free so that it can be given to the consumer at the very lowest cost. When any article is not manufactured in Canada, I care not what it is it should come in practically duty free, so that it can be given to the consumer at the very lowest price. When any set of manufacturers come to the Canadian government and show them that they are prepared to invest enough capital to manufacture an article in suffici-

ent quantity to supply the Canadian demand, I should always be Canadian enough to favour giving them a proper amount of protection to enable them to make a success of the industry. In the large piping concern to which I have already referred, they make nothing but butt-welded pipe, which is not suitable to the requirements of farmers and others and which will not stand the test as well as lapwelded pipe. Under these circumstances, I claim that instead of raising the duty from 17 per cent to 35 per cent, it should have been allowed to come in free until some of our manufacturers give evidence that they want to go into the manufacture of that article, and show the government that they are prepared to make it in sufficient quantity to supply the Canadian market. If the Minister of Agriculture wants to properly represent the great agricultural class, instead of adopting legislation which in many cases has been a great detriment to the farmers, he should look after their interests with respect to the questions with which they are especially concerned and see that they receive that consideration from the government to which they are entitled. Upon two occasions in this House I offered the suggestion that there should be a rigid inspection of wire fencing. Our farmers in the west, in Ontario, in Quebec, and especially in the older provinces, purchase yearly hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of wire fencing. While I believe that all the wire fencing, as far as the wire itself is concerned, is about of the same quality, I can show you in the district from which I come fencing which was purchased by farmers twenty years ago which is good fencing to-day and which has proved a good investment to the farmers who bought that fencing. I can show you hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of fencing that was bought two or three years ago which is practically useless to-day from rust, and one of the reasons for this condition is that it has not been subjected to that rigid government inspection which should be insisted upon by the Minister of Agriculture in order to protect the farmer and which has been undertaken in other instances.

The farmers are in this position simply because the manufacturers are not using the proper galvanizing for the fencing. It is the duty of the Minister of Agriculture to see that a proper inspection is made so that every rod of fencing should be stamped and the farmers in buying it would know that they were purchasing a proper article. The minister should afford such protection as this to the farmers instead of pretending to protect them as he has done, for instance, in the pork regulations. If these pork regulations had been carried out to the letter in the section from which I come, not one farmer in ten now raising pork would be raising it. When the regulations were "introduced, the pork manufacturers took advantage of them to beat down the farmers and then we have a protection against American pork of only 2 cents a pound, so that every farmer in Canada to-day, especially in the pork raising sections, has been compelled to sell his pork at a price from $1 to $1.50 a hundred less than he can possibly raise it for. There is not a farmer in Ontario to-day who, if put upon his oath, could say that he has sold 100 pounds of pork this year at a profit. I know whereof I speak, I know something of the raising of pork, I have been careful in feeding but this year had I sold the grain which I fed to swine and given the hogs away, I would have been $500 better off than I am. As I have said, the farmers are placed in this position first by the pork regulations, and second by the insufficient protection against the inroads of American pork upon this market. It should be absolutely prohibited instead of being permitted to usurp the Canadian market.

i nave protested against the policy of the government in regard to cold storage. In my section the climatic conditions are such that fruit ripens practically two weeks before it does in any other part of the Dominion, and in such a section the government could well afford to establish several large cold storage plants to demonstrate what it is possible to do by means of a proper cold storage system. Such an example would force others to go into it and that would be accomplishing something for the farmers. I believe that such a government cold storage plant could be run at a profit to the government as well as to the very great advantage of the farmers of that section of the country. Last year parliament voted $1,000,000 to assist in the establishing of cold storage throughout Canada. Thirty per cent of the cost of the plants was to be given as government aid. * n,ly sectioii no advantage has been taken ot that provision to any extent. It shows that the business men do not consider it a fair business proposition ; they do not care to invest 70 per cent of the cost and have the government control their establishment. As I have said, if the government bore the whole expense they could well afford to build several large cold storage establishments in sections of the country where they are most needed. They would be an advantage to the farmers, to the canners and to manufacturers generally. Mr. Guthrie in replying to the hon. member for Lamb-ton (Mr. Armstrong) who had compared certain Russian markets with the Canadian markets, spoke in strong condemnation of the Russians. He is one of those who support a government who pay $5 and $10 apiece for every Doukhobor entering this country as an immigrant from Russia. I have strongly protested against that class of immigration coming into Canada and against the bonusing of any immiJ grants. With our great natural resources,

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?

James S.

Waugh, of Chatham, has received to date $1,256, has an unpaid account of $26, and has been asked for a refund of $558 paid to him as commission on immigrants claimed bv him to have been placed at farm work or domestic service, hut whom the department has reason to believe did not engage at those occupations with the parties. whose names were given as their employers.

That is a sample of what is going on throughout this country. I want to be fair enough to say this, that while I have a return giving the total number of Immigrant agents appointed in Ontario, a great many

have been honest enough in their dealings with the government and the public where they live. I purpose to place this return upon ' Hansard.' I may say that when I asked for this return, the Immigration Department sent a circular letter to every farmer with which this agent claimed he had placed immigrants, asking if these immigrants gave satisfaction. Here is the circular letter which was seut out :

It has been reported to me that an immigrant who arrived in Canada some time ago, engaged with yon as a farm labourer. I would be pleased if you would let me know if such is the case, stating if he is still with you, what kind of satisfaction he is giving, and what wa?es he is receiving. I desire this information in order to form a fair opinion as to the satisfaction immigrants are giving to Ontario farmers. Please reply on space underneath and use inclosed envelope, upon whch no postage is required, in mailing your answer to me.

Your obedient servant,

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W. D. SCOTT,


Superintendent of Immigration. While a great many replies came back to the department, there are many farmers who did not reply. Possibly I should have known better myself but I never supposed, nor did any of the farmers and residents of the county of Kent, that the bonus of $2 was allowed not only on heads of families, but on every man, woman and child that came into that riding during the last season. Here Is the return : Here is the list : Family Name. Family. Placed with Address. Commission.Joseph Ivison Chatham S cts. 2 00 6 00 6 00 4 00 2 00 2 00 2 00 6 00 2 00 6 00 10 00 8 00 8 00 6 00 4 00 4 00 2 00 2 00 2 00 2 00 2 00 2 00 4 00 2 00 2 00 2 00 6 00 6 00.Geo. Dugard Sydney Marbrhem Joseph J. Pope Walter Seth bridge A. J. Fuller Edwin Hammond Frank England E. Drake Arthur Dungate Wife and child M. M. Drachs u J. Heard E. R. Seach Arthur Hawkins Wife and 2 children ... William Sault Robt. Millinn The Defiance Iron Works Thomas Hills Wife Frank Walwark Colchester Dungale Chatham Ouvray Chatham ... James Barnett - A. V. Webb H. Rupel Fred. Green Edward Merry Wife.. D. McPherson it Harwich Chatham Lewis Bastin Austin Edwards Richard Paget Chatham., Allan vi lie ^Chatham W. J. Jackson F. W. Norwood F. Bradey



Name. Family. Placed with Address. Commission. $ cts. Wife W. Brook bank Eberts. 4 00Geo. Figden A. F. Handy Chatham 2 00H F Chambers T. W. Pardryn Dungal 2 002 00Tbos. Waddie 2 00J. Ferry Chatham 2 002 002 002 00Port Alma 6 002 00Chatham 2 000 006 00Darrell 2 00H. T. Salter fi 002 00Cedar Springs 2 00C. Terry Chatham 2 00W. G. Cain. 6 00M. Waddie Doyle 2 00


?

Mrs. .T.@

Gates Wife and 3 children... Thos. Brady Buxton . 10 00

2 00

Child 4 00

Thamesville 2 00

8 00

Geo. Holledge R. T. Budd 2 00

2 00

2 00

Chatham 2 00

Selton... 2 00

Thamesville 2 00

Chatham 2 00

Kent Centre.. .. 8 00

6 00

8 00

2 00

6 00

Pinehurst 2 00

Chatham.-

Wife 4 00

W. F. Stubbesfield.. . 6 00

W. G. Wilson... 6 00

Kingold

. 6 00J. Pendleton h it R. Millin Chatham 6 00,, 6 00Cedar Springs .... 2 002 00Wife 4 00H. W. Hibbard.... 4 006 00Charing Cross ' 8 006 002 002 00A.-F. Wilks 2 00Wife... 4 008 00Sidney Russell Wife and child A. Williams Williams 6 008 00R. Kings 6 002 002 00Port Alma 2 00Chatham 2 002 00Wallaceburg 2 002 00Chatham 2 00Wife .. R Huff 4 002 00F. Rayner Peter McGeachey 2 00

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April 10, 1908