May 15, 1905

IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. W. P. MACLEAN.

And the majority of whom, are elected by one man in New York.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

William Barton Northrup

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. NORTHRUP.

I agree with the member for East York (Mr. W. F. Maclean) as to affirming the principle of Canada for the Canadians, tout it does seem to me that the strongest blow you can strike at this principle is to try to apply it in defiance of common sense. I suppose there is nothing more generally admitted in this country thau that what every part of Canada wants is as much foreign capital as we can possibly induce to come here, and it is just a question whether or not we in this House are doing anything to assist the investment of foreign capital if we throw as many obstacles as possible in the way of foreigners investing their money in Canada. I feel very strongly that anything we may do to make it more objectionable from the standpoint of an outsider to invest his money in Canada, is doing just so much 'to retard the progress of this country. There is another consideration that strikes me. Looking at the matter practically, while I am very glad to see the majority

of the board, Canadians, and while I would be very glad to see this committee of three, Canadians, I do not feel that practically it makes one iota of difference whether you have them Canadians or not. If the Americans are bound to purchase this railway, and if we pass a law that all the directors or a committee of three must of necessity be Canadians, we will have dummy Canadians, men who are merely placed there to do what they are ordered to do by those who own the road, and in such a case it seems to me the latter end of that railroad would be worse than the first. When my hon. friend from East Grey (Mr. Sproule) inquires as to whether or not the Railway Commission would have still more authority over this railroad in case the committee of three were all Canadians, it seems to me the Railway Commission has this advantage ; that in case this railroad comes before the commission the railway is in the position of a litigant in court. If the litigant lives on the other side of the line and he has a case in a Canadian court I do not think his opponent need be worried as to whether or not he will call his witnesses, for the Railway Commission will have perfect power to proceed whether any witnesses are called on behalf of the railway company or not. I think we can give credit to these Americans for sufficient common sense to rest assured that if a question arises before the Railway Commission they will protect their own interests by calling all the witnesses they think necessary, and if they do not so much the worse for themselves and so much the better for the people of this country, because then judgment would be given in favour of those who are attacking the railway.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

I am very sorry that I may be open to the insinuation that I am not capable of exercising ordinary common sense.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN.

We get that insinuation often now.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

Even in view of the possibility of being open to that imputation I will venture to do my own thinking. I ventured to express my view on this matter briefly the other day, and it is of such importance that I feel justified in restating that view. I had not the pleasure of hearing the hon. member for Cornwall (Mr. Pringle) to-day, but I infer from something which has been said since I came into the Chamber that he had put the matter in a somewhat different light.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAGGART.

He has not spoken today.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

Then probably he has done so by his silence. This is not a question as to what we shall do generally, but, it is a question as to what we shall do in a case where we have invested the money

of the people of Canada, and in such a case I am perfectly sure that we have the right to have a say in the question of whether the directors shall be British subjects or foreigners.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Robert Abercrombie Pringle

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PRINGLE.

Does the hon. gentleman understand that clause has been struck out of the Bill ? It reads now that a majority of the directors shall be British subjects, and it simply gives these directors the power to operate this small line of railway by three delegates who must be three directors. I have accepted that amendment.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

Haughton Lennox

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LENNOX.

I was not aware until this moment that a change had been made, but the position I take is that we do not want special legislation for individual companies ; what we want is the same legislation for all companies and this company like all other companies should be made to conform with the general law we enacted a year ago. I have not had an opportunity of examining the proposed amendment to this Bill, but I assume it does not conform with the general railway law, and if it does not it ought not be allowed to pass. We have invested a very large amount of money in this railway. I cannot perhaps do better than read a few lines from an article on Canadian railway taxation in the 1 Canadian Magazine a year or two ago by Mr. Pettypiece. He says :

At Cornwall, a bridge across the St. Lawrence, connecting the Ontario and New York sections of the New York and Ottawa Railway, furnishes another example. The New York end of the bridge is assessed at $40,000, and pays taxes on that amount ; the Ontario end is neither assessed nor taxed. On the New York portion of the road the fare is two cents per mile ; on the Ontario portion three cents. The New York end of the bridge received no government aid ; the Ontario end received $125,000 from the Dominion and provincial parliaments.

All that I mean is expressed in the statement which I have already made that what I want to govern this railway is the General Railway Act.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

Robert Abercrombie Pringle

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PRINGLE.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

When this Bill was in the Railway Committee, without the amendment which has been moved at the present time, I was opposed to it, because it was cutting out the general law in the special instance. I thought then and I still think that it is a good thing sentimentally, and it may be a good thing practically, to have a majority of the directors of a road which is being operated in Canada, British subjects. That is maintained by the excision of the first clause, and at the same time a modus vivendi is prepared, by which this road can be managed practically by an executive : but it

seems to me that we have kept all the power in the Dominion of Canada. That executive may manage the road from New York, but all the operations of the road are under Canadian law and are subject to the Canadian commission ; and if the officers who reside in New York do not bring their evidence and make their case good, that does not deter the commission or the laws of this country from having their full effect. Foreign capital is a thing we require in this country. The more we get the better, and we can scarcely consider it foreign capital after it comes here and becomes fixed. It then becomes Canadian capital, and all that the foreign holders will get will be the profits over and above the working expenses. I am quite willing that the Bill, with the amendment now proposed and the first clause taken out, should pass and become law.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I want to say a word in answer to the hon. member for Cornwall (Mr. Pringle). He says that it seems to be the desire of those taking part in this discussion to retard or prevent these people bringing capital into Canada. I think that statement is quite gratuitous. So far as I know, that is not our desire or intention ; but while we are willing that capital should come in with the greatest possible freedom, we merely wish to know what safeguards are taken so that these railways may be controlled in the interests of Canadians. I asked for that information from the Minister of Railways, who speaks for the government and ought to be able to give it, but with no desire to prevent these people from spending their money in Canada. That is not the intention, at least it is not mine, and I have never spoken with that object in view.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   OTTAWA AND NEW YORK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink

Section agreed to. Bill reported, read the third time and passed. [DOT]


CITIZENS' BANK OF CANADA.


House in committee on Bill (No. 133) respecting the Citizens' Bank of Canada.


CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

Has the Finance Minister any objection to this extension ?

Topic:   CITIZENS' BANK OF CANADA.
Permalink
LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

That was considered in the committee ; and as we have granted a similar privilege to one or two others, we agreed to grant it in this case. We desire however, to discourage the policy of extending charters, and our hope is that hereafter we may apply the rule more rigidly.

Topic:   CITIZENS' BANK OF CANADA.
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CON
LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I think there was a previous extension.

Bill reported, read the third time and passed.

Topic:   CITIZENS' BANK OF CANADA.
Permalink

PROVIDENCE SAVINGS ASSOCIATION (LIMITED).

May 15, 1905