May 2, 1905

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

If the legislatures of the provinces were given full authority in respect to education, of course, they would be permitted to abolish separate schools. They would have the authority to abolish them. As to whether or not there would be any remedy by an appeal to the executive and to this parliament would bear upon the question as to whether the 4th subsection of section 93 had application to the new provinces, when you apply the constitution to these new provinces, not being provinces in the first instance but coming in as Territories.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

Well, that is not very satisfactory.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I assure my hon. friend that I am trying to answer him and I think my answer is quite as plain as his question.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

I thought my question was very plain.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I think my answer is very plain.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

I will repeat my question in order to be fully understood. If this motion of my hon. friend passes and j the legislature of Saskatchewan is organ- j ized, immediately after the organization-j

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Just one moment.

1 must ask my hon. friend to be definite. Organized under what kind of legislation?

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

Under this amendment.

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?

Mr. I@

Very good.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

Suppose the amendment should carry and it should be declared that:

subject to and in accordance with the provisions of the British North America Acts, 1867 ' to 1886,-

The legislature

is entitled to and should enjoy full powers

of provincial self-government, including power to exclusively make laws in relation to educa-t'on.

And that the legislature had established separate schools protecting the rights of the

minority, would the legislature have the right to repeal that law, and if it did repeal the law would this parliament he entitled to pass remedial legislation?

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

The legislature would undoubtedly be entitled to repeal the law just the same as the legislature of Manitoba was entitled to repeal the law which had been passed after Manitoba came into confederation.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

And what about remedial legislation ?

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I suppose, so far as that is concerned, if you apply the constitution of Canada it depends on whether subsection 4 would apply. If my bon. friend had been careful enough to read my speech he would have seen that I had already pronounced au opinion on that and he need not have asked me the question. I said that in my opinion, the application of subsection 1 might give the answer as to the application of subsection 4, and I thought subsection 1 would not apply to conditions existing in the Territories. Some hon. gentlemen on this side of the House have not taken that view, and most hon. gentlemen on the other side have taken precisely the opposite view. That is a point on which I do not pretend to have a very strong opinion. I have not considered it'very carefully. My proposition was simply to apply the constitution of Canada as contained in the Acts of 1867, 1871 and 188G to these new provinces. I was prepared and am prepared to abide by the result of the application of that constitution. But in any event. I would point out to m>

hon. friend that the question of remedial legislation could not be one of very great importance in his opinion, because, if the minority in the provinces would apply for remedial legislation, undoubtedly my bon. friend and his leader would oppose it in the future just as they did in 1896.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

My hon. friend (Mr. R. L. Borden) has not given me a very definite answer and I think I can go a little furthei and ask him : leaving aside what the judges may decide in the future, whether in his own opinion he is ready to declare that the minority will have the right to remedial legislation under the circumstances Which I have mentioned. The hon. gentleman (Mr. R. L. Borden) proposes to make the law now ; he should know exactly what he intends in making that law and he must be in a position to declare whether that law will be sufficient or not.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I told my hon. friend already-why does he ask me to repeat it-that in my opinion subsection 1 certainly does not apply. That surely is the important question.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

What about subsections 3 and 4 ?

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Subsection 1 as I understand it gives the key note. I believe that subsection 1 would not apply to territories coming in under legislation of the character I asked for in my resolution, and J thought also that subsections 3 and 4 might be governed by the considerations affecting subsection 1.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

I think my hon. friend is absolutely mistaken because while subsection 2 may not apply subsections 3 and 4 might apply.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

X concede that, and the hon gentleman may be right; but my hon. friend asked me for my opinion and I stated there was a difference of opinion in the House on the subject. I was simply giving my own opinion with regard to the matter and with every deference to the opinions of hon. gentlemen in this House who differ from me. I could not do any more than give my opinion In reply to his question, and I think I have given it with sufficient clearness. I have a strong opinion about subsection 1, but not a strong opinion about subsections 3 and 4. The question is not the same.

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?

Mr. BRODETJR@

I am not yet absolutely satisfied that my hon. friend has answered my question. I thought that when he undertook to propose this law he should be in a position to tell us whether remedial legislation would apply or would not apply. For my part I believe it is the duty of this parliament to decide to-day what is the law and what should be the law.

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May 2, 1905