April 28, 1905

LIVE STOCK RECORD ASSOCIATIONS.


Hon. SYDNEY FISHER (Minister of Agriculture) moved for leave to introduce Bill (No. 148) respecting the incorporation of Live Stock Record Associations.


CON
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

It will perhaps be proper for me to give a little explanation of the objects of this Bill. Hon. gentlemen who have been for some time in the House will remember that about five or six years ago -I think in 1899-an Act was passed to authorize the incorporation of Dominion record associations. That Act was for the purpose of authorizing associations of a Dominion character for the purpose of keeping the records of thoroughbred live stock, under which the authority was given for the formation of associations, each association to be for the purpose of a particular breed or class of animals. Under the Act associations were empowered to adopt con-breed or class of animals. Under the Act, a number of associations were incorporated. Recently a request has come from the live stock men of Canada, expressed particularly in the winter of 1904, to nationalize the records of thoroughbred stock in Canada. That request was formulated and presented to me as Minister of Agriculture at the meeting of live stock men which took place last winter, and which was called the national live stock gathering. They wished two things ; In the first place, to have the official stamp of the department affixed to all pedigrees which were to be Issued by the record associations incorporated under this Act, and they wished, in the next place, to have this work of keeping these live stock

records placed under the supervision of the Department of Agriculture here at Ottawa and removed here for the convenience of people all over the country. I would premise toy saying that this work has been more or less local in its character up to now. In the great province of Ontario, which is the great centre of thoroughbred live stock in the Dominion, live stock asso ciations were called, as a rule, Dominion associations, although they were formed under provincial Acts of Ontario. They practically did the work very largely for the Dominion, but still there were other associations and organizations in other provinces formed for the same purpose-in the provinces of Nova Scotia and New Brunswick and in the province of Quebec, and I think there was also one association started in-the Northwest Territories. There was, however, a very strong movement on the part of the people of Manitoba and the Northwest Territories for the formation of more associations of this kind, and it is largely due to this movement that the request came for the nationalization of the records. The object of this nationalization is to simplify the records. If we were to have in Canada a registration for, we will say, pure bred Ayrshire cattle in Toronto, another in Nova Scotia or New Brunswick, and another in Manitoba or British Columbia, it would be obvious that there would be a great deal of confusion, and it would work to the detriment of the breed. Anybody purchasing a thoroughbred animal would hardly know in what record to look for its pedigree, and he would hardly know whether the certificates given by each and every one of these associations had the same and equal value. Therefore, it was found by the live stock men that the point had been reached when it would be extremely important that these records should be made national in their character and should be under the same supervision and control.

When this matter was presented to me I felt that there were two points to be very carefully considered. The first was that the live stock men themselves who had been managing this work, in the province of Ontario especially, extremely well, should continue to manage the work, that there should be no interference with the business of the association on the part of any government officials or on the part of the department, but that the work must be carried on by the men who were interested in it and who had succeeded in the past in doing it very well. The only question was as to the representation of people all over the country in that work, instead of it being local in its character. Then came the question of affixing an official stamp to the certificate, and I felt it was rather a delicate point to take up. If there were an official stamp affixed to the certificate of pedigree, it could only be of any value when it was affixed after consideration and investigation to see that the pedigree was correct.

161*

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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

The minister will not pretend to say that the records we have up to the present time are of no value ?

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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

On -the contrary I say that they are of great value and have been very perfect in their character, but my hon. friend (Mr. Sproule) was speaking to the leader of the opposition and was not listening to what I said. I did not say that the record must be of value, but that the affixing of the stamp to be valuable must be done after supervision and inspection to see that it was correct. I said therefore, that for this purpose it would be necessary -that the proper officials of the department must have a certain supervision and right of inspection of the records or otherwise the affixing of the stamp would be purely perfunctory and would carry with it no value. I find that under the present law, chapter 33 statutes of 1900, there is no authority given to the department or to the minister to affix any such stamp, and for that purpose this amendment is suggested :

The following section is added to the said Act :

At the request of any association incorporated under this Act authorized at the annual meeting or at a meeting called for the purpose, the Minister of Agriculture may, through an officer of his department thereunto authorized by him, approve under the hand of the said officer and the seal of the said department or such other seal as may be adopted for that purpose, the certificates of registration issued by such association.

It is only at the request of the association concerned that the Minister of Agriculture will affix this seal. This safeguards the association ; safeguards the interests of the live stock men and secures that there should be no interference on the part of the department except at the request of the association concerned. The work of nationalizing the records has been carried on. The different record associations at present existing and incorporated under this Act have passed resolutions requesting that they should be given house room in the department here; that their records should be transferred to Ottawa and maintained here, and that the department should affix this seal to their records. For this purpose there must be a certain amount of co-operation and combined work on the part of the different associations. Each association will still absolutely control its own particular business, but when there are some ten or fifteen or twenty different associations all working under one organization there will be some work which is common to all. and which they can better do as a united organization than by each working separately and disjointedly. In the present Act there does not seem to be any authority for these associations to work in conjunction with other associations for a common object. I therefore desire, for the purpose of the new

conditions under which they will work to give them authority to join together and in combination to do certain parts of their work. Section 5 of the present Act provides that the constitution, by-laws, and rules of the association shall provide for the registry of pedigree pure bred live stock, the election of officers, the expulsion of members, the holding of annual, general or special meetings and the location of head offices and branch offices if any. In addition I propose that section 5 of the Act is amended by adding :

And may provide for the exercise in conjunction with any other association or associations incorporated under this Act of any of its powers or functions through a common officer or officers to be appointed by such association.

This simply provides that in addition to things which they ' shall ' provide for, they ' may ' also provide for arranging this joint action. These are the two amendments which will be necessary to carry into practical effect the nationalizing of the records which has been asked for lit- the live stock associations and which has been consummated as far as it can be without this law, by a series of agreements which have been made between the various live stock associations and the Minister of Agriculture.

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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

That contemplates that all the live stock associations will be brought to Ottawa.

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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

That is the intention, and that is the agreement.

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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROUEE.

How would you do in the case of the Shropshire Sheep Association whose headquarters are in Indiana?

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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I am only dealing with associations which are incorporated under this Act. If the Shropshire men do not form a Dominion association I can do nothing with them.

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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

Could not that all have been accomplished in a simpler way by having a Dominion register here, and having the various associations send their books here for registration ?

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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

The live stock men do not want that. They want to continue to manage and control their own record.

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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

They would control their own record, but after the registration is complete, they would send their books here. They would make their own records and then if you like transmit a duplicate copy here, so that there would be one register here for the various associations instead of each association keeping up its separate register and staff of officers.

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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

They have agreed to that, and are going to do that here.

Topic:   LIVE STOCK RECORD ASSOCIATIONS.
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LIB
CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

For instance, the headquarters of the Dominion Shorthorn Breeders' Association is at the parliament buildings in Toronto under Mr. Wade. Would you move Mr. Wade's staff here, or would there be a register here with Mr. W'ade continuing to do the work there and sending here either that work or a duplicate of it ?

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LIB
CON
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Yes, there will he a staff here. The work is to be done here for two reasons. In the first place, with this work being done in connection with my department, it would not be practicable to have it done elsewhere. [DOT]

Mr. 'SPROULE. Why ?

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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Because the record has to be examined before the certificate of the department is attached to it. The officer of the department who will attach the seal of the department to the certificates must tiave access to the books ; otherwise he cannot tell whether the certificate is correct or not.

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April 28, 1905