April 13, 1905

LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

Was that denied by Dr. Macdonald ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

Not at all, because the hon. gentleman was well aware of this fact

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

Do I understand the hon. member for East Simcoe (Mr. Bennett) to say that he made an accusation of that kind in the presence of the former Deputy Speaker, Dr. Macdonald, and that there was no denial ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

I heard the accusation, and it was never denied, that he was a part owner of the dredge. And the Acting Minister of Public Works (Mr. Hyman), I believe, must know that he was interested in that dredge

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

I must ask the hon. gentleman (Mr. Bennett) to permit me to say that I know nothing about it and never heard a single reference to it in any possible way.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

Then, the Acting Minister of Public Works (Mr. Hyman) knows, of course, that Mr. McKay, ex-commissioner of Crown Lands for Ontario, is one of the chief owners of the dredge.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. IIYMAN.

I do not know.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

Then, all I can say is, that the Acting Minister of Public Works is absolutely the most innocent duckling that I know anything of to-day.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS

Order.

(Mr. BEN'NET. I do not know what hon. gentlemen are shouting ' order ' for. It is a notorious fact that the member for North Grey in the local legislature, Commissioner of Crown Lands in the late government, is the chief owner of dredge No. 9. Why, Sir,

when that dredge has been at work at Midland he comes there to inspect the work.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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?

An hon. MEMBER.

He has a soft snap.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

I can tell the hon. member one thing-that it would be impossible to hurt his soft head. Now, I make a statement. and a parliamentary inquiry will prove it, that Mr. McKay, member of the local legislature and Minister of Crown Lands in late government, is the chief owner of dredge No. 9, owned by the Owen Sound Dredging Company. If the hon. member for North Grey (Mr. Telford) is in his place I do not think he will have the temerity to deny it. I will go further, and say that other gentlemen, who were formerly members of this House, were also members of that dredge company, and I know what I am speaking about, because the. dredge has been working there and these gentlemen were very anxious to secure appropriations for Midland harbour. To that I do not demur, but I hope the money will be spent in the public interest and not solely in the interest of party friends, who will use it to dig out their wharfs and docks and improve their own private property. This whole proposition is ear-marked with the stamp of somebody interested. The advertisement is dated the 7th April yet it does not find its way into the Toronto ' Globe ' until the 12th. And now the minister placidly assures us that he has not heard of any complaint from any contractor. But how could any contractors have complained V They could not have known about the advertisement until the 12th. The advertisement got into the Montreal 'Herald' on the 11th. The Postmaster General will have to wake up and find out what is the matter with the mail service. Here is an advertisement intended to be inserted in the Montreal and Toronto newspapers on the 7th, and it does not reach them until the 11th or 12th. The fact is, Mr. Speaker, that the wrong-doing which has been going on at Toronto for years past, and which the people have pretty effectually stamped out for a good many years to come, is being repeated here. The scene of operation has been transferred from Toronto to Ottawa, and this advertisement is simply a forerunner of the raids on the treasury which are contemplated by certain gentlemen. It is notorious that in Ontario timber limits have been disposed of, the sale of which was only made known by one single advertisement in an evening paper in the city of Toronto, and that fact will be exposed. But that single advertisement enabled the Minister of Crown Lands in the late Ross government to say that the sale of limits had been made known to the public by advertisement. In fact, the limits w-ere actually stolen by hangers-on of the late Ontario government. If the contract for this dredging is not given out now, it will be due to the exposure I have made. It would have been given away to the party Mr. BENNETT.

favourites had X not made known the facts. It is notorious to all those who know the hon. member for Rainy River (Mr. Conmee) that he is really the owner of this dredging plant, whether it be registered in the name of Mr. Bow-man or his son-in-law. I hope the hon. member will be able to declare that tenders will not be given until forty-five days are allowed other parties to bid for the work. As to the matter referred to by the hon. minister, that of paying for the dredge in transit, I suppose he does not know that Mr. Boone, who was paid for towing the dredge, was one of the party friends of the present government who did yeoman service in the election. Perhaps he does not know who Mr. Boone is and what are his politics.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

I know him, but not his politics.

Mr. BENNETT- Then I will enlighten the hon. gentleman. I have always given my hon. friend credit for being the wisest politician in western Ontario.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

You are mistaken.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

Why, when the question of redistribution came up my hon. friend was made chairman because he was supposed to have all the cards up his sleeve and to know all the political moves in w-est-ern Ontario. But perhaps the hon. gentleman is so modest that he will disclaim being one of the political powers in that section. His memory now seems to be a little deficient with regard to party friends. The fact of the matter was this, that Mr. Boone was a strong party friend and had to be rewarded. Some of his relatives are. also strong party friends and they had to get their reward. The minister of course, iu throwing the onus of the drafting of this advertisement on the officials of the department, is only following the example set him by his colleagues. For instance, when anything is done in the Department of Justice, such as drawing up a trifling Bill like the Autonomy Bill, the Minister of Justice lifts up his hands and declares he knows nothing about it, and the whole thing must be visited on the head of some offending official. I hope that the hon. minister will be able to inform us that thirty days delay will be given.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

I do not see any necessity for thirty days, but sufficient time will be given.

Mr.. R. L. BORDEN. I should say that under the conditions explained by the minister, not only thirty days but three months should be given. The conditions alleged, have not been denied by the minister. There is practically only one plant capable of performing the work at this port.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

I think there must be at least three or four.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Let us say there are three or four. At all events my hon. friend suggests that there is but a very small number, and for that reason he thinks the notice may be correspondingly short. At least he made some argument of that kind in connection with the proposed introduction of dredges from the United States, but the very argument which he made against bringing dredges from the United States is one which should indicate to him that the greatest possible notice should be given to people in Canada in order that they might acquire plant and be in a position to compete for the work. Every word my hon. friend said was the strongest possible criticism on the course taken and for which he is responsible, because whether it be due to the officials of his department or himself, makes not the slightest difference. He is responsible for this advertisement ; and if it contains clauses which were inserted without his knowledge or consent, he is responsible for seeing that any public servant who has done this is properly dealt with. It seems to me that the conditions of this notice are of a most peculiar character. One would have thought that, this advertisement had been drawn up by some one of the corporations which own these dredges. If the minister had not assured me that it was drawn up, in his office, I would have supposed it was drawn up in the interests of the owner of some dredging plant in this country. Take for example this condition :

No tender will be considered from parties who are not, at the date of this call for tenders, bona fide owners of the necessary dredging plant, duly registered in Canada.

Why is it in the public interest that they should be owners at the time this is made provided they become owners and are ready to do the work when required ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

That provision may not be happily worded, but it is intended to apply against American dredges. Two or three people put their heads together and tender for a contract, and then go to the United States and buy the dredge. The department thought it was not fair to subject the owners of dredging plants in Canada to that competition. .

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Have all the dredges on the spot been built in Canada ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
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LIB

Charles Smith Hyman (Minister Without Portfolio)

Liberal

Mr. HYMAN.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   DREDGING CONTRACT AT PORT ARTHUR AND FORT WILLIAM.
Permalink

April 13, 1905