April 10, 1905

THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.


House in committee on Bill (No. 45) respecting the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada.-Mr. E. M. Macdonald.


LIB

Charles Marcil (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER.

Shall I report the Bill ?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I did not hear the preamble adopted.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

It was adopted some days ago.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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L-C

Andrew B. Ingram

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. INGRAM.

At the last sitting of the committee the preamble was carried, but clause No. 1 was under discussion.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Charles Marcil (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER.

I called the first section and declared it carried, and was in the act of signing it when the member for Halton (Mr. Henderson) rose.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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L-C

Andrew B. Ingram

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. INGRAM.

We did not understand that it was carried.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Alfred Augustus Stockton

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. STOCKTON.

It seems to me there is a very near connection between this Bill and the government Bill to take running-rights over the Canada Atlantic Railway system, and it does not seem to be fair to call upon us to vote upon this Bill before we have the government Bill in our hands. We, in the maritime provinces, are very much interested in this transportation question, as the Minister of Railways knows, and there is a very strong feeling there that the legislation in this parliament shall not be prejudicial to the interests of the maritime provinces so far as transportation is concerned. If this Bill is passed, it will be passed without the members of this House having had an opportunity of knowing what the policy of the government is in (reference to running powers over the Canada Atlantic system. For myself, if I am called upon to vote on this section now, I shall be voting-in the dark, because I do not know what are the terms of the Bill which has been proposed by the Minister of Railways, and which has received its first reading to-day. I do not think that a delay of twenty-four hours or forty-eight hours will make much difference in the general result, but it will give the members of this House an opportunity of considering the terms of the Bill which has been introduced by my hon. friend the Minister of Railways.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. E. M. MACDONALD.

I would like to point to the hon. member for St. John (Mr. Stockton) that there can be no advantage to him from any deliberation which he may give to the government Bill, to enable him to vote on the proposal contained in Bill (No. 45). The government Bill does not in the slightest degree affect this Bill ; it has no relation to it whatever. The government Bill could have been brought down if this Bill had never been heard of. The principle asserted in the government Bill could have been asserted no matter whether the Canada Atlantic or the Grand Trunk owned the railway from CSteau to Parry Sound. I am at a loss to see where my hon. friend could get any light in deciding whether or not the Grand Trunk Company should have the right to purchase a certain amount of stock, which is the only proposal contained in section 1 of this Bill. Nothing could arise in the discussion of the government Bill which would affect that simple provision.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. HAGGART.

The hon. gentlemar is entirely mistaken. This Bill was held over so that we might consider what power the government was going to exercise in regard <[DOT]0 running powers. The statement was made Mr. INGRAM,

that when the government came for legislation for the purpose of acquiring that road, that would be the proper time to ask for information in regard to running powers over it. We have not the Bill before us, and do not know what it is ; but my impression, from glancing over it is that it not only provides for running powers, but lor acquiring half the road or a certain moiety in it. We cannot consider this Bill fully until we know the provisions of the government jjiII. The Minister of Finance says it is only an empowering Act. It is absolute so far as this parliament is concerned. The government might exercise the right at any time they chose without consulting us. We are empowering them to do as they like in reference to the matter, and, if all stories are true, the arrangement was made long ago by which the government were to secure running powers from the Grand Trunk Company over this road.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I also think this Bill is very intimately connected with the government's proposal ; and, although I have only had an opportunity of looking very hurriedly over that Bill, I would be inclined to go a little further than my hon. friend from South Lanark (Mr. Haggart), and to say that the Grand Trunk Railway Company could itself go before the Railway Committee and have t-lie terms and conditions settled on its application, because its rights are made subject to running powers jby the distinct words of the Act. I never heard clause 1 of this Bill carried, and I have been here at all the sessions of the committee and have paid particular attention to this Bill. Therefore, as I wish to ask some questions about section 1. I would move that that section be re-considered.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink

Motion agreed to. On section 1,


CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Might I ask the hon. gentleman in charge of the Bill whether ;there is any bonded indebtedness in existence at present on the Canada Atlantic Railway : if so, what amount of bonds has been issued ?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. E. M. MACDONALD.

If my hon. friend will look at section 1 of the next Bill, he will notice that section 3 of chapter 90 of the statutes of 1903 is repealed. That section gave to the Canada Atlantic Railway Company the power to issue $14,000,000 worth of preference securities, and the effect of these two -oills taken together is to repeal that section and to give the company power to issue a further amount mentioned here in pounds sterling, which it is understood is to be used for the betterment of the road.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

David Tisdale

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TISDALE.

I understood at the Railway Committee that power is given to increase the issue by $2,000,000.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

The bonding powers under the Act of 1903 have been exercised ?

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. E. M. MACDONALD.

I am instructed that they have been.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

Samuel Barker

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BARKER.

I see that this Bill gives the company power to acquire not only the .Canada Atlantic Railway, but a couple of transport companies, which I suppose means a shipping company, and a railway in the United States. Can the hon. gentleman tell us what the stocks in the United States are -whetner they are paid-up stocks or stocks on which calls may be made ? At the same time, I would ask him the particulars of these bonds which this Bill is giving the Grand Trunk Company the right to acquire, hold, pledge and dispose of. I think we ought to know the extent of the obligations we are authorizing the company to enter into.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
Permalink
LIB

Edward Mortimer Macdonald

Liberal

Mr. E. M. MACDONALD.

I think the hon. gentleman was present at the Railway Committee when Mr. Chrysler, representing the companies, explained these questions fully.

Topic:   PRIVATE BILLS.
Subtopic:   THE GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY COMPANY.
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April 10, 1905