March 1, 1905

CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

But the road I refer to between Prescott and Ottawa has not got a separate superintendent or separate shops Mr. EMMERSON.

or anything of that kind, yet its accounts are kept separate, and this does not necessitate any extra officials in any shape or form. Its accounts are kept separate in order that the Canadian Pacific Railway shareholders may know whether the purchase of that branch is a paying investment or not. I do not see why the same thing should not be done on the branches of the Intercolonial Railway. There is no reason why the same superintendent at Moncton should not operate this particular branch. In fact, it ought to be operated more cheaply than when it was an independent line, because then it had a superintendent of its own and special car shops, whereas now it is managed by the general superintendent of the Intercolonial Railway, and its repairs are done in the car shops of the government line. But there is no reason why separate accounts should not be kept of its operating expenses and revenue, so that we might know the result of this investment by the government. According to the statement of the minister last year, the profits on this Canada Eastern were practically nil, and I can quite understand that the result this year will be much worse, but it would be interesting to the country to know what that result actually is.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

The same course is being pursued with regard to the Canada Eastern as has been followed all along when purchases were made of other lines as branches for the Intercolonial Railway. Many years ago, when the late government purchased the Cape Breton line, that was made a part of the Intercolonial Railway, and its accounts were not kept separate. There was no distinctive line drawn between that portion of the road and any other. When Sir Charles Tupper, in 1879, bought, as Minister of Railways, the River du Loup branch, there was no distihction made between that branch and the main line. The same course was followed when the St. Charles branch was built. None of those branches can be shown to have been successful or unsuccessful, as far as the bookkeeping of the Intercolonial Railway is concerned. The same is true with regard to the Drummond branch. There has been a return asked for in connection with the Canada Eastern, and that return is being prepared in so far as the information asked for is available, but there is no distinct operation of that road as against any other portion of the Intercolonial Railway.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

Because twenty-six years ago a certain system was followed is no reason why that should be persisted in. If the hon. minister wishes to be progressive and manage the Intercolonial Railway and its branches as other railway corporations manage their lines, he would keep his accounts differently, and we would be able to know exactly what portions pay and what do not; and having this knowledge, we

[DOT]ought to be able to stop the leaks and effect some economy.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

I have simply been stating the facts as they are, but the argument of the hon. gentleman is one open for consideration.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

I understand from the hon. minister that his intention is strictly to follow in the lines which Sir Charles Tupper laid down some twenty-six years ago, and, rather than break away from that precedent, he is prepared to go on in the dark for all time to come and leave the country in ignorance as to really what portions of the railway system pay and what do not. I think we are entitled to be put in such a position that we may be able to judge whether these branch lines will pay or not ; and so may be able to come to a wise decision in case other branch lines are offered to us. The Canada Eastern was added to the Intercolonial Railway through the influence of the present minister. I, for one, would like to know the result of that purchase. I believe that the minister should keep that entirely separate. I think that, at least as long as he occupies the position, he should afford us information from which hon. gentlemen could judge what the result of that purchase has been. I understand that other branch lines have been offered for sale to the Intercolonial Railway, * and, no doubt, some of these propositions will be brought to the House. We ought to be in possession of information which will enable us to decide whether such purchases should be made or not.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Honoré Hippolyte Achille Gervais

Liberal

Mr. GERVAIS.

I would like to have an answer to the question I put to the minister about granting passes to the legislative councillors of our province.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

I will inquire into the matter and let my hon. friend (Mr. Gervais) know to-morrow.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

Did I understand the minister to say that he cannot ascertain whether this branch of the Intercolonial Railway is paying or not ? If that Is the case it seems to me to be a very strange thing.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

Has the hon. gentleman (Mr. Sproule) been absent from the House ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

No, I have been here all the time.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

I hope I made myself understood. I stated that there was no branch of the Intercolonial Railway for which separate books were kept, that all the branches were operated as part of the system. The Rivi&re du Loup branch, the St. Charles branch, the Cape Breton branch, the Drummond County branch-all these as they were acquired were taken over and run as part of the system.

61j

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

When the Prince Edward Island Railway was proposed to be extended we are told that it would add to the mileage and make the Intercolonial Railway pay.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

That was taken over when Prince Edward Island entered confederation.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

But the argument that was put forward when we where asked to vote money for the extension of it is what I have stated. When the Drummond County Railway was purchased, we were told that it was to bring the Intercolonial Railway up to the grea t metropolis of Montreal where it would gather freight to make it a paying road. And we were told that when the accounts were analysed it would be found a paying part of the road and would help to put the Intercolonial on a paying basis. And, last year, when the Canada Eastern was purchased, we were told that it would help to make the Intercolonial pay. But when the government went to the country in the general election, one of the arguments advanced from that side was that the Intercolonial never had and never would pay, and so the government would not be justified in undertaking to build and operate a transcontinental line as proposed by the leader of the opposition. It was said that the more branches we purchased for the Intercolonial the worse it would be. I made up my mind either that the arguments presented in support of purchasing the Canada Eastern were misleading and improper, or those who used them were dishonest in that use, or else that they were wholly ignorant of what would take place. We have not the advantage of time to prove the correctness of our policy, but we can only reach the conclusion that the government were very unwise in buying the Drummond County road if the Intercolonial was running farther aud farther behind. And the same was true of the Canada Eastern.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

The hon. member for East Grey (Mr. Sproule) says that when l he Prince Edward Island line was purchased, the statement was made that it would make the Intercolonial a paying road. The hon. gentleman is an old parliamentarian. He must have been here when Prince Edward Island came into the union, and he knows that the taking over of the Prince Edward Island road was part of the terms of the confederation.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I know that.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

Then the hon. gentleman cannot say that it was promised that this would be the means of making the Intercolonial pay.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I said that it was stated that the longer a through line was the more likely it was to pay.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

But this is an isolated line on an island In the gulf.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

But it was practically to be an extension of the line with boats connecting.

Topic:   SUPPLY-INTERCOLONIAL RAILWAY, ANNUAL STATEMENT.
Subtopic:   JL 1 CUIAIUBH.
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March 1, 1905