February 22, 1905

?

Robert Bickerdike

Mr. BICKERDIKE.

This gentleman does not go to Brighton.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Edward Cochrane

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. COCHRANE.

You are chuck full of information. Does this gentleman get paid for going to his work on the canal in addition to his salary and does he get any allowance for house and rent ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

The superintendent of this canal lives right on the spot. With respect to the Murray canal, my hou. friend knows, because he was familiar with the canals in that section in bygone days, that the gentleman now occupying the position of superintendent is paid just in the same way as was his predecessor. His predecessor under the former government was paid a salary and given so much allowance for driving to ihe canal. It appears that has been continued. I am glad my hon. friend has brought the matter to my notice. I shall inquire into it. But I am advised that it has been the course of the department since long before the present government came into power. I will get the exact facts

as to the expenses charged, and learn whether these expenses are properly chargeable to the canal.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Edward Cochrane

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. COCHRANE.

Here is another case of ' You did the same.' We have heard that until it has become stale ; and, to my mind, even when it was fresh -it was no justification for extravagance on the part of this government. When in opposition they charged the government of that time with extravagance and promised to do better. And now the minister tries to defend what he must know to be dishonest so far as this superintendent is concerned by saying that the same was done in previous years. The former superintendent was dismissed, and the cause of his dismissal was that he made these charges. Yet, to-day, the salary paid to the present officer is justified on the ground that it was paid to the previous occupant of the office. That is no justification. The only way to justify it is to show that the man is entitled to it. The minister says he will inquire into the matter. We have the Auditor General's Report for the facts, and if that is not enough, I do not know to whom the minister will apply. I never was more disgusted in my life than when I travelled over that canal during the last election, and found that the office occupied by this official was built at the I public expense, and yet he was getting $6 a month for office rent. The minister says that the position of superintendent of the canal does not call for special qualifications, but that a marble cutter can fill the office.

I do not know what officer can require special qualifications if this one does not. Does the minister mean to tell me that the engineer in charge of the canal is there all the time to see to it that the public money is not wasted ? If, when the frost comes out of the ground in the spring a part of the embankment slides down into the canal, is it not clear that a man of brain power and business capacity is needed to handle the men to make the repairs ? If men have been put into such positions simply because they are good party men, and regardless of their qualifications for the duties expected of them, it is time to call a halt. Here is a man receiving $1,000 a year, when the high school teachers in the same section receive no more, and then he gets an allowance for an office rent when the government itself has provided the office.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Edward Norman Lewis

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hr. LEWIS.

Is it not possible and advisable to fill these positions in connection with the canals and lighthouses from the ranks of men who are acquainted with navigation matters. We have now a considerable commercial navy, and the men engaged in it have not many positions ashore open to them. Would it not be wise for the minister to fill such places as this with men. even his own party friends who are familiar with vessel transportation and the use of the canals ? I would strongly urge this course.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

I presume you will find many men of that class with the necessary ability. My hon. friend from North Toronto (Mr. Foster) asked a question last night with regard to the timber for the guide-piers on the Carillon and Grenville canal. Of course, that was for last year, and is not involved in this vote, but I desire to explain the matter. This timber was supplied under a contract which was entered into after tenders had been called for by newspaper advertisement. The contract was based on schedule rates. The lowest tender, that of Martineau. Son & Le-moine, was accepted. In the Auditor General's Report I find that the total cost was $19,788.55-that being the result of the final adjustment between the chief engineer and the contractor. The price of the spruce and hemlock was $30 per thousand as stated last night, pine timber being $35 and tamarack plank also $35. We have here also the concrete, the stone filling and all the ether items entering into the construction of this guide-pier. The best criterion by which to judge whether the prices were reasonable or not is found in the fact that there was open competition and that six tenders were received.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

George Halsey Perley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. PERLEY.

The explanation of the minister is satisfactory, so far as it goes. But he must have had a very unfortunate experience with the people who tendered, because, while $35 per thousand for pine, is fair enough, yet $30 for spruce and hemlock in that locality where the timber is grown and made is out of all reason. I ha vc never known such prices to be paid, and I have bought and sold a great deal of these woods.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

I have already stated that this was a competitive price, but I should also call the attention of the committee to the fact that this price is for the timber in the work, with all the labour upon it employed in putting it there. If the hon. gentleman will consult the Auditor General's Report, he will find that there is nothing there for labour, except an item for taking down certain work as ordered,- a special matter. But all these item's are computed at a certain price, with the labour included, that is to say, the timber used is measured after it has become a part and parcel of the whole and completed work. I think that is an element which would affect the judgment of my hon. friend from Ar-genteuil (Mr. Perley).

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

Is that the customary way in his department of measuring timber ? If it is not, why was there an exception in this case ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

The engineer says that is the customary way in making up the final estimates of the department where it is by schedule rate ; because concrete must mean concrete completed and placed

in the work where it' is required, and where the specifications design it should be ; and timber must mean the timber as a part of the completed work placed in the position where the requirements of the specifications designed.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

Am 1 to understand that in every case the contractor who does this work supplies the timber ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

That depends upon the call for tenders, that is always specified. In some instances the department would furnish the material, and then it would be a tender for doing the work and putting it in place. It depends upon how the call for tenders goes forward. If you are simply asking for tenders for timber, then of course it would mean the measurements before it became a part of any work. But where you are asking for tenders for the construction of a guide pier, then the schedule prices would mean timber or concrete as part of the completed work.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Francis Ramsey Lalor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LALOR.

What is the length of this timber ? That makes a considerable difference.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

The timber was from 20 to 25 feet in length.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

George Eulas Foster

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOSTER.

What was the nature of the work ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

Cribwork and concrete.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Francis Ramsey Lalor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LALOR.

$30 would be a pretty steep price for hemlock timber. I have taken contracts where I got it at a much better price than that.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

My hon. friend must bear in mind this fact, that we invited tenders, and there were six tenders, of which we chose the lowest. The whole public of Canada had an opportunity to tender, what more could be done ? No exception can be taken to the action of the department. Of course it may be said, oh, this could be done for less. The opportunity was open to the hon. gentleman himself to tender.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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CON

Francis Ramsey Lalor

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LALOR.

Did you advertise for these tenders ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson (Minister of Railways and Canals)

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

I stated time and again that we advertised in the newspapers of Ottawa and Montreal, and at points between.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MANITOBA ELECTION RETURNS.
Subtopic:   SEIZURE OF THE SCHOONER 'AGNES G. DONOHUE.'
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February 22, 1905