August 9, 1904

LIB
CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

There was so much confusion that I did not understand it. I think the chairman will not take advantage of that-I am sure he will not. The minister moves to reduce the item by $5,000, and 1 wish to move an amendment. It may be that the chairman declared the motion carried, but I did not hear it, and I think he will not take advantage of my misunderstanding.

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LIB

Mahlon K. Cowan

Liberal

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Cowan).

I have ruled that this is out of order, because you pie changing the destination of the money. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Blain) has an appeal to the Speaker if he desires.

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LIB

Clifford Sifton (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. SIFTON.

Here is the authority to which I refer. I quote from Bourinot's Parliamentary Procedure, page 592 :

The Committee of Supply cannot increase a grant which has been recommended by a message from the G-overnor General. It is also irregular to increase any item in a resolution. But any motion to reduce a grant or to strike it out of the estimates altogether will always be in order. The advisability of increasing a grant may, as a matter of course, be discussed so as do inform the government as to the sense of the House on the qustion. The ministry alone can move in the matter, and another message will .be brought down to increase the grant.

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CON
CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWLER.

The minister has given us the reason why there should be no objection to this vote. He says there can be no politics in it because the money is to be expended in the unsettled portions of the Northwest Territories. But the persons who will perform the labour on this trail will be taken from the settled portions of the Territories and their employment will be made conditional on their voting for the government candidate.

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LIB
CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWLER.

But the voters will be taken out and the work done on the condition that when they come back they will vote for the government candidate.

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LIB
CON
LIB

Clifford Sifton (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. SIFTON.

Will the hon. gentleman (Mr. Fowler) allow me to ask him a question ? Would he prefer that only labourers should be employed on this work who are not voters ? My hon. friend (Mr. Fowler) ought not to allow this government to spend any money, because we are hiring people who are voters in Canada and we might make a condition that they shall all vote for the government.

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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWLER.

I am replying to the argument that there can be no politics in this because the work is to be done in an unsettled portion of the country, and I am showing that that has nothing to do with it.

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LIB

Thomas Osborne Davis

Liberal

Mr. DAVIS.

The hon. gentleman (Mr. F owler) must have a poor opinion of the voters in the Northwest Territories if he thinks they can be bought up like sheep.

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CON

George William Fowler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. FOWLER.

How can I help having a poor opinion of those voters when I see the representative they send here from Saskatchewan

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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

I am surprised to hear the member for Saskatchewan (Mr. Davis) speak in this way. He sits here and listens to the minister who represents his section of the country state that he himself would not trust the legislature of his province to spend this small amount of money. The hon. gentleman (Mr. Davis) allows the minister to discredit his province and himself.

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LIB
CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

I repeat that the minister said that he would not trust the legislature of the Northwest Territories to spend this money for the reason that in the past a certain amount of money had been placed at their disposal and they did not expend it for the work for which it was voted. And he made practically the same statement with regard to the province of Manitoba-

be would not trust the legislature of that province either. Will the minister tell us what money the territorial government received and expended tor the purpose for which it was not voted?

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LIB

Clifford Sifton (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. SIFTON.

It was two or three years ago. I cannot give the exact date.

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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

I accept that. But would he say on what work the money was intended to be spent ?

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LIB

Clifford Sifton (Minister of the Interior; Superintendent-General of Indian Affairs)

Liberal

Mr. SIFTON.

I cannot say. I made the statement on the authority of my hon. friend from Alberta (Mr. Oliver) who made the statement to me in discussing this particular vote.

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August 9, 1904