July 21, 1904


Now, here is the whole story. -in connection with the manner in which cuts for short weight are made under rule 2 as adopted by the Board of Trade, July 10th, 1901. There is no objection to the first paragraph of the rule, but there is to the second which reads :- Now, I would call your particular attention to this. Actual weights must be shown on certificate, but no gain shall be applied against losses in the average ; gains of 2 pounds and over shall be governed by rule 3. A further rule provides that not less than five packages of cheese nor more than ten per cent of each particular lot shall be weighed. Why, Mr. Speaker this shows that the butter and cheese are not weighed at all. It would not stand law for a minute. Say there are fifty packages of cheese" and you weigh only five of them. You go before the court and the judge asks you, ' Did you weigh that cheese ? ' and the answer is ' I weighed five packages and averaged the rest.' Why he would send you back with instructions to weigh forty-five more. And yet this kind of thing goes on for years and is still upheld. We have had an investigation, or rather we have had the mockery of an investigation with none of the benefits of it. All the benefits of the situation have been left to flow into the coffers of those who are handling our butter and cheese in the city of Montreal. The effect of this is that, supposing that there is a lot of fifty packages, five of which would be weighed and, supposing the first package showed a loss of one pound, the second a gain of one pound, the third O.K., the fourth a loss of one pound and the fifth a gain of one pound, a cut is made of two pounds in every five packages of the whole lot, that is to say, of twenty pounds, whereas the average shows no loss whatever. In other words you get no credit for your overweights, and you are cut when you are short;-' Heads I win, tails you lose.' Under the system of weighing in force and allowances insisted upon, it too often happens that at least one package in every lot is judged short weight. Therefore, all is cut accordingly. And it appears that frequently not sufficient care is taken to note the overs, it being claimed that the scales are set at the weight marked at the package and if the beam goes up sharp it is too often registered as O.K., and no particular pains taken to note the amount of' overweight. Now. is not that a nice state of affairs ? These deductions have been made in the handling of between two and three million packages. The results of the farmer's labour are handled in this fashion as they Mr. POPE. go through this great port, and, though the government, on the 22nd October had these facts before them, no action has been taken. And, though the investigation was held two years ago no report was submitted until last October. Sir, if ever there was a time when a resolution of want of confidence in the government and in one of its departments should be moved, I am justified in the motion I Shall present to you in a few moments. This practice is a source of great annoyance and is looked upon by the factorymen, to speak mildly, as fraudulent. Well, they are kind. This rule is insisted upon by the buyers for the purpose, as they explain



Of course they would have an explanation. Can you imagine a set of men banded together in an association handling between two and three million packages of cheese and butter not being able to give an explanation why they cut the farmers for shortage and never give them credit for overweight ? -of avoiding cuts for short weight at the point in Europe to which they ship. Do they know how they will weigh out in Europe ? If they do and if there is a shortage why do not they provide for it in the price they pay the farmers for the cheese and not take this underhand, unfair, dishonest means of getting even-and better than even-with the farming community of this country. Why, they admit the whole thing. They say that they are guessing at what the goods are going to weigh out in Europe. They intend to cut the farmer enough to pay for the shrinkage that may take place not only between his factory and Montreal but between Montreal and Europe. They buy the goods and surely they should be willing to run their own risk, instead of transferring to the farmer that risk of handling between this country and Europe as well as the risk between the factory and Montreal. That is a safe way of doing business, but it is mighty hard on the man who milks the cows and makes the butter and cheese. This the undersigned looks upon as entirely another transaction for which the country maker should not be held responsible. Mr. Parmelee is quite right-but the farmers are suffering just the same. And these hon. gentlemen on the other side of the House, by their neglect, by their indifference to the interests of the people, are permitting the farmers to be imposed upon by these men. And for what purpose ? The Minister of Agriculture told Mr. Bull to be careful to do nothing to disturb matters and create party capital, because that capital would be against his own party the one that he loves so much and serves so faithfully. This is the Minister of Agriculture, who is so much beloved by his party. I could well understand his writing that letter to Mr. (Bull, warning him to take no action that would hurt his party, but, on the other hand to let the farmers suffer, let them be hit, let them be bit. After he had warning, so much warning that he was obliged to take action, he went to work ; but when these gentlemen said: Stop, we are Liberals; we belong to your party-Mr. Ayer and all those gentlemen who are supporters of this government in Montreal, nine-tenths of these exporters belong to that party, perhaps nineteen-twentieths of them-1 say when these men interfered they received instructions to stop. The reports were slow, at last they came, and now they are pigeon-holed since the 22nd day of last October, and the farmers of this country continue to be cheated since that time. The rule and the practice, the undersigned thinks, should be cancelled, and when a lot averages lull weight the maker should get the benefit thereof, or should get credit for all over weights instead of being mulct on the whole when a portion only is under weight. This is the report of the commissioner whom this gentleman appointed. This is the man who represents the farmers, the practical farmer of this government. He has had time to frame his legislation here, but to-day we heard him spending his time trying to make political capital, getting up nothing more than campaign literature out of an organization of seedsmen. He had better spend his time in framing legislation to protect these men, instead of trying to reconstruct the Militia Department of Can ada. He should devote some more of his time to the farmers of Canada. There are many farmers in the counties of Missisquoi, Brome and Shefford who are suffering from the application of this tariff, who have suffered for years, and he knows it. He can spend time in interfering with the political part of a militia organization, but when it comes to the defence of the farmers' interests he has no time at his disposal, he is over-worked, he is too tired, he cannot get a move on. The farmers of this country must suffer from it. Most of the butter and cheese is sold on Montreal weights, therefore the maker must rely on the integrity of the weigher, as he has usually no opportunity of seeing the packages weighed on their arrival, and for this reason there is a strong demand for the appointment of official weighers at the point of shipment. This in a general sense, the undersigned thinks impracticable as butter and cheese is shipped from nearly every railway station in Canada, and it is manifestly impracticable to maintain an army of official weighers to do the work. The butter and cheese is usually sold at the various boards, but the delivery is not made at such boards except in so far as regards such as may have been manufactured in the immediate vicinity thereof, or nearer thereto than to any other station, so that even the appointment of official weighers at such boards would not afford the relief demanded. The maker has the remedy in his own hands by declining to sell on Montreal weights and perhaps in some sections the competition between buyers is so great that they might come to terms and accept under certain conditions the factory weights, but the undersigned is of the opinion that such a course would only have the effect of creating dissatisfaction on the part of the buyer instead of the seller, and lead to as much friction, if not more, than at present obtains. In conclusion the undersigned has the honour to suggest that the Act 28 Vic., chapter 6, be so amended as to provide for the appointment of weighers of butter and cheese by His Excellency the Governor in Council, instead of permitting such appointments to be made as at present, by boards of trade. This would give the weigher a status that he has not at present and would go far towards regaining the confidence of the factory men who now are aware that the weighing in Montreal is not in all eases done by an official weigher, but rather by an appointee of the butter and cheese association, which association is composed of buyers, some of whom might be, under the circumstances, regarded as exercising undue influence over a weigher when their own appointee. Respectfully submitted, (Sgd.) W. G. PARMELEE. Sir, that is the conclusion of this report vindicating the appeal of all these people from time to time for relief from the distressing conditions under which they found themselves placed. Mr. Parmeloe found he did not have to go very far ; he did not have to make a second or third visit to Montreal, his first touch at these centres showed him that there was something wrong, that there was something unjust, that there was something unfair towards the farming communities who shipped to Montreal, and that they were being deprived of money they ought to receive as the result of their labour. Mr. Speaker, I think I have said enough to satisfy every hon. member of this House that the government have been criminally neglectful, have been careless, and have been indifferent to the best interests of the dairymen who, in the eastern part of Canada at least, have been wronged i; the report practically tells us so. It tells us that the system of taking all and giving nothing in return is not business, it is not law, it is not honest, it is not fair to those men who are working day after day and producing the dairy product of this country and shipping it to Montreal. It is not fair to them, and it is not creditable to this government that three years should have been taken up in getting out a report, and that when the report is out relief should not be given to these people, although recommended by that report, at the first meeting of parliament that takes place after the report is made. I say the Minister of Agriculture has been neglectful of his duty to the dairymen. He had enough evidence of this wrong before he ever appointed Mr. Farmelee, he had no need to appoint him. He did not need a roval commission to act, but the truth is that he was afraid of somebody, he



did not dare to act off his own bat, because he had been told by these gentlemen in Montreal more than once to be careful how lie proceeded, his political friends warned him not to go too far. Consequently, when he really did appoint Mr. Parmelee, the latter only gave in his report last October. I say that it is unfair, it is discreditable on the part of this government, it is unjust to the farmers of eastern Ontario and of Quebec, who have been deprived of hundreds and thousands of dollars which they are entitled to, and would have received if their products had been fairly weighed in the city of Montreal, In view of all these facts, I beg to move : That all the words after the word ' that ' in the proposed motion be left out and the following substituted therefor : Iu the opinion of this House the dairy farmers of Canada have wrongly suffered great loss for many years through the system allowed to prevail by the government in regard to the weighing of butter and cheese at the port of Montreal and for the government's neglect to provide any proper system for such weighing as shown by the investigation and report of Mr. W. G. Parmelee, Royal Commissioner, bearing date 22nd October, 1903 ; and this House regrets that since the date of such report no action has been taken by the government to remedy the state of affairs shown thereby.


?

Rt. H@

Mr. Speaker, I do not know that I can blame the hon. gentleman (Mr. Pope) very much, because, apparently, his speech was chiefly directed at my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture (Mr. Fisher), but I may just say that it was only at three o'clock that I was aware that the hon. gentleman was going to move in this particular question, and 1 have hardly had any opportunity, except from his own speech, of examining the facts in detail. I think it will have struck hon. members of this House that despite the very great zeal the hon. gentleman may have for the interest of the farmers of Canada, whether east or west, his desire if possible to cast discredit upon my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture is evidently greater than his zeal for the interests of the farmers of Canada. A great many things that he said, I think might very well have been spared. I think that everybody from one end of Canada to the other who has paid the slightest attention to the operations of the Department of Agriculture since my hon. friend became the head of it, is aware that no Minister of Agriculture in the past has ever done a hundreth part as much for the welfare of the people of Canada and for the benefit of the farmers of Canada as the present Minister of Agriculture has done, and as between himself and the hon. member for Compton I do not believe that in the hon. gentleman's own constituency on a ballot vote he would find one man in ten to say that my hon. friend the Minister | Mr. POPE.

of Agriculture was not the zealous and firm friend of the farmers of Canada.

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CON

Rufus Henry Pope

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. POPE.

May 1 ask the right lion, gentleman if he was ever in my constituency 1

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LIB

Richard John Cartwright (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT.

It is a good while since, I am bound to say.

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CON
LIB

Richard John Cartwright (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT.

A good while since, but I know something of the feeling of the farmers of Canada and I have the honour to represent a constituency which contains as many good farmers as are to be found in the county of Compton, and which is one of the very largest cheese exporters at this moment in the whole Dominion of Canada.

Mr. i'Oi'E. They are getting rid of you.

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LIB

Richard John Cartwright (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT.

I do not think, if the hon. gentleman chose to come up to the constituency of South Oxford and to encounter me there he would come to that conclusion. Others have tried that experiment and they have retreated in considerable discomfiture. In respect to some of the statements that the hon. gentleman has made, I wish to state, on thevinfor-mation given to me by my department, that reporters were allowed to be present at tlie meetings held by Mr. Parmelee. I took the trouble since this debate commenced to inquire of that gentleman whether this was the case and I am informed that the reporters were permitted to be present. I have no personal knowledge of the matter, nor do I suppose the hon. gentleman has, hut I leave it at that. The statement of my deputy is that reporters were invited and were present.

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CON
LIB

Richard John Cartwright (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT.

I think Mr. Parmelee's word is quite as good as any statements put in the hands of the hon. gentleman whether supported on affidavit or unsupported on affidavit, and I for one would accept Mr. Parmelee's statement quite as freely as I would the Sworn testimony of all the reporters the hon. gentleman can collect together from one end of the Dominion to the other.

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CON
LIB

Richard John Cartwright (Minister of Trade and Commerce)

Liberal

Sir RICHARD CARTWRIGHT.

I know my deputy and I know perfectly well that he is incapable of making a misstatement of any kind. In respect to the delay in

connection with this particular matter in regard to which the hon. gentleman addressed the House for an hour and a half I would point out that during the greater portion of the years 1902 and 1903 the De-

puty Minister of Trade and Commerce was incapacitated by a very severe and dangerous illness, involving liis absence for many months from Ottawa, and this was the reason why the delay of which the hon. gentleman complains took place. As to the allegation which the hon. gentleman has made, on what evidence is best known to himself, that improper influence was brought to bear to prevent the production of this report or the laying of it before the House, I give it the most unqualified contradiction. No sort of improper influence was brought to bear on me or upon my deputy and so soon as Mr. Parmelee's health permitted, this report was brought forward. I am not aware that there have been any complaints recently. I think that these complaints, if my memory serves me, extended over a number of years and extended to the time of our predecessors as well as to that of ourselves. But,

1 may observe in reference to this matter that in the course of his report Mr. Par-melee points out, what is no doubt the case, that a great deal of the difficulty that has occurred, has arisen from the simple fact that in those portions of the country to which the hon. gentleman more particularly refers there is a habit of packing-cheese and butter without giving the product sufficient time to dry and that in consequence there is a very considerable shrinkage from time to time which naturally results in disputes between the buyers and sellers. I was at pains to make inquiry in western Canada, as was also Mr. Parmelee, as to what the difficulties were which they experienced, and I found that in the western section of the country a sufficient space of time was allowed for the natural shrinkage to take place and that they had very little complaint to make as to the weighing of cheese or butter in Montreal. In the eastern section, I am informed, although I have no knowledge of the subject myself, that there is considerable difficulty owing, as I have said, to the fact that the cheese is hardly given a sufficient length of time to enable it to be properly dried out, or at least properly free from moisture befpre its submission to the weighers. Under such circumstances there will be considerable friction and difficulty. As for the recommendation of Mr. Parmelee, I have some doubts, although I cannot give expression to any positive opinion on the subject, as to whether it is desirable or wise that the government should take the matter entirely into the hands of the department and appoint official weighers themselves. That is a matter upon which my hon. friend beside me (Mr. Fisher) may desire to consult with his colleagues as it is his bounden duty to do. Mr. Parmelee pointed out also, and that was one result of his investigation, which was worth something at any rate

to the producers, that they were not in any way bound to accept Mr. McLeod's weighing and that the remedy was very largely in their own hands if they chose to exercise it. No doubt there was one point which the hon. gentleman made and which has been alluded to by Mr. Parmelee which I am free to say requires consideration and which perhaps calls for a remedy, and that is the practice of charging farmers for the loss and not crediting them with the gain in the case of special packages.

1 am free to say that that is a matter which deserves and should have due consideration. Since the report came out I fancy that these complaints are not as frequent as before, although the hon. gentleman may be better advised on that subject than I am. But the allegation he has made that reporters were excluded and the complaints that he has made as to the extraordinary time that has elapsed are really unfair and unfounded. The delay was not due to any improper influence, but to the fact that Mr. Parmelee was reduced almost to a condition of imminent danger for a period of many months during which I was obliged to give him leave of absence. That is the real cause of the delay that the hon. gentleman has spoken of and I think that when the facts are stated the House will have no difficulty in coming to the conclusion that the hon. gentleman's zeal has outrun his discretion in this special matter.

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Mr M.

AVEItY. Let me say, Mr. Speaker that the farmers of this country have been literally robbed by the system of weighing cheese in Montreal. I went down there myself to see what the trouble was and I found that the cheese were cut one pound per box and sometimes six or seven pounds on fine cheese. I thought that it might be possible that the cheese makers were not giving us proper weight and so I had the cheese weighed myself, but notwithstanding that I found that the weights were again cut in Montreal. I believe these men in Montreal club together to make something out of each farmer and that is the way we are robbed. It is time that the Minister of Agriculture and the government should look into this matter and protect the farmers of the country. He was informed of this grievance on the 13th of October last and yet he has done nothing up to this moment. I suppose if the opposition did not press this matter now, the Minister of Agriculture would still rest on his oars and do nothing. It would become him a great deal better to look after the interest of the farmers and not go around meddling with the appointment of officers to a militia regiment. He should leave the Pickels of Sweetsburg alone and try to get the farmers out of the pickle they are in. If this thing goes on it is time to change the Minister of Agriculture and put some one in

liis place who will discharge the duties of *Hie office.

PAIRS :

Ministerial.

Opposition.

House divided on amendment (Mr. Pope).

YEAS :

Messieurs

Alcorn, Ingram,

Armstrong, Johnston (Cardwell),

Avery, Kidd,

Barker, Lancaster,

Bell, LaRiviere,

Bennett, Lennox,

Birkett, Leonard,

Blain, McGowan.

Boyd, Morin,

Broder, Osier,

Bruce, Pope,

Carscallen, P.orter,

Clancy, Richardson,

Clare, Robinson (Elgin),

Clarke, Roche (Marquette),

Cochrane, Rosamond,

Donnelly, Smith (Wentworth),

Earle, Sproule,

Fowler, Thomson (Grey),

Ganong, Tolton,

Gourley, Vrooman,

Henderson, Wilmot,

Hughes (Victoria), Wilson.-46.

NAYS : Messieurs

Archambault, LeBlanc,

Bazinet, Lewis,

Bdland, Loy,

Blanchet, Macdonald,

Bourbonnais, Mackie,

Bruneau, MacKinnon,

Bureau, MacLaren

Carbonneau, (Huntingdon),

Champagne, Macpherson,

Christie, McGugan,

Copp, Mclsaac,

Costigan, McLennan,

Davis. Malouin,

Delisle, Marcil (Bagot), _

Demers (Ldvls), Marcil (Bonaventure),

Demers (St. John), Matheson,

Emmerson, Mayrand,

Erb, Mignault,

Ethier, Mulock (Sir William),

Fisher, Oliver,

Fortier, Parmelee,

Gervais, Paterson, '

Gibson, Puttee,

Girard, Riley,

Gould, Roche (Halifax),

Grant, Ross (Yukon),

Harwood, Rousseau,

Holmes, Russell,

Hughes (King's, P.E.I.) Scott,

Hyman, Sifton,

Johnston (Cape Breton)Sinclair,

Johnston (Lambton), Kendall,

Lapointe,

Smith (Vancouver), Stewart,

Talbot,

Laurier (Sir Wilfrid), Thompson

Laurier (L'Assomption), Lavergne (Drum. & Artha.) Lavergne (Montmagny),

(Haldim'd & Monck), Tolmie,

Turgeon,

Wade.-75.

McEwen, Sherritt,

Cowan, Pringle,

Dyment, McCormick,

MeColl, Ward,

Cartwright, Tupper,

Lovell, Kendry,

Tobin, Ball,

Lang, Hackett,

Gallery, Kemp,

Beith, Hale.

Borden (Sir Frederick), Brock,

Campbell, Calvin,

Fitzpatrick, Casgrain,

Heyd, Seagram,

McCool, Northrup,

Prefontaine, MacLaren (Perth),

Sutherland (Essex), Culhert,

Calvert, Taylor,

Logan, Lefurgey,

Harty, Reid (Grenville),

Wallace, Tisdale,

Sutherland (Oxford), Haggart,

Wright, Lavell,

Haszard, Daniel,

Gauvreau, Monk,

Fielding, Borden (Halifax),

Bickerdike, Roddick,

Brodeur, Gilmour,

Dugas, Tarte,

Guthrie, Maclean,

Law. - Kaulbach,

Morrison, Robinson (Northumberland)

Ross (Rimouski). Halliday.

Amendment negatived.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

The hon. members for Durham East and Nicolet have not voted.

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CON

Henry Alfred Ward

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WARD.

I am paired with the hon. member for West Northumberland (Mr. Me-Coll) or I would have voted for the amendment.

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CON

Georges Ball

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BALL.

I am paired with the hon. member for Richmond and Wolfe (Mr. Tobin). Otherwise I would have voted for the amendment.

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Motion agreed to, and House went into Committee of Supply. Immigration-Salaries of agents and employees in Canada, Great Britain and foreign countries, $135,000.


CON

Uriah Wilson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WILSON.

Before this vote is passed, I would like to make a few remarks in a general way about immigration. We have been increasing our vote from year to year until it has reached a very large amount. At the last session of parliament, we voted $595,114, which was covered by five items in the estimates. For some reason or other, the hon. the Minister of the Interior, who has charge of this department, does not see fit to divide up this vote as is done in other departments. This year we are asked to vote $150,000 more, which will make the total $745,014. In addition there has been spent on immigration buildings during the past year $41,764, which is a considerable item, and which makes the total expenditure for the year on immigration alone $7S6,-

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CON

Melzar Avery

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. AVERY.

993. I do not suppose that any one would particularly complain of the size of the vote when taking into consideration the fact that this is a new country and that its territory is almost boundless, provided we were getting value for our expenditure. But the difference of opinion between that side of the House and this is that we consider we are spending a very large amount of money and not getting an adequate return.

It is true that we are getting a good many immigrants, but it is equally true that some of those are not desirable. The character of the population we are bringing into the country is a matter of very great importance. We consider that at present we have a population which will compare favourably with that of any other country in the world, and what we require to do above everything else is to keep that standard up, and that we can only do by being very particular as to the class of immigrants we bring in. While our laws in this respect have been improved quite considerably within the last few years, they are still not up to the mark, and it is in the recollection of every member of this House that a large number of Italians were stranded in Montreal a few months ago. Had outlaws been what they ought to have been and had they been rigidly enforced, that could not have happened. We had 3.500 to 4,000 Italians landed in Montreal without any apparent means of support, and who were a great burden on the people. That was so noticeable that even the Toronto ' Globe ' could not pass it by, and pointed out how our laws were inefficient both as regards immigration and alien labour, and insisted that they ought to be amended. On that occasion. the '.Globe' in its issue of the 16th of May, 1904, used these words :

The stranding of a great force of Italian labourers in Montreal shows serious defects in our immigration and alien labour laws. It is stated that 5,000 more of the same class will be brought to Canada during the present season.

Well, Mr. Chairman, would you believe it. that in the annual report of the Minister of the Interior, there is not a single Italian mentioned as having come to this country. I called attention to this in the committee and pointed out to the deputy minister how we ought to have a true record in that report of the nationalities of all our immigrants, and I think I had his promise that in future that would be done. These things ought to be on record, so that we would know from time to time from what nation-rdities we draw our immigrants. In addition I find that the Montreal ' Star ' said last spring that the poor law guardians in the old countt-v had pauper children to the number of 7,000 which they thought were good enough to pass inspection in this coun-trv and which they intended sending over. Whether they have come or not, I am not aware, but these are matters we should

seriously look into, and if possible not allow any one to enter this country who would become a charge on the public as a pauper or who would be likely to swell our criminal classes. Then we had a steamer which came from the far east on board of which a man had died on the passage out and was buried at sea, and which our quarantine officers reported as all right. But one of the passengers landed in Vancouver had smallpox and died in a few days and the people of Vancouver gathered up the remaining passengers and quarantined them in that city. It will be recollected also that a railway train carrying passengers from that steamer, was quai-antined at North Bay which caused a great deal of expense to the province of Ontario. And all this might have been avoided if the quarantine officers in charge at Vancouver had done their duty and discovered that there was a man on board suffering from small-pox.

We find that the city charities of Montreal during last year deported 113 people, some of whom were sent to the United States, some to England, and some to their homes in Canada. Then. I have a report from Mr. Macpherson. the agent of the Dominion Steamship Company at Quebec, in which he says that a large number of diseased persons have been allowed to land jj.ii this country. He says that one of the clerks in this own office, as a result of mingling with those people, took trachoma, and that in the country north of Quebec there are many people affected with the same disease. He says that on the authority of the doctor. He also says that out of 80,000 immigrants who landed at Quebec fully 10 per cent were diseased persons. I do not know whether this is true or not ; but it is reported in the Montreal ' Herald ' of December 26. 1903, and that is a paper which is favourable to the government, and which would not make such report if it were not true. Then we have a report from Mr. Macdonald, an architect in the city of Winnipeg, who states that many of the immigrants who came out on the same ship that he did, came from sections in Scotland where there was small-pox, and that when they landed at Halifax and it was reported that there was no disease on the ship, thev were allowed to go where they pleased without any examination, until they got tickets to travel by the railway to their destination in the west. He also says :

Then there are a certain class of city street loafers from Glasgow, Edinburgh, London and Liverpool, who should never be encouraged to come to Canada. They are only a detriment to this country. On the boat that I came over on there was a large number of English not fit to settle here.

I do not know whether the law is strong enough to prevent such a class of people from landing on our shores. If it is not, it certainly ought to be made so, because we

have quite enough of that class of people In our cities and towns, even in a country so good as ours. No matter how scarce 'labourers and mechanics may be in the country, those men are always too busy to want a job ; and in the winter time their families have to be cared for. and they themselves have to be fed by people who are charitably disposed. We do not want to increase that class in our country. I have a letter here which was written by Mr. Parker, who was in the employ of this government during the whole of the fiscal year of 1903, and who reported up to the end of December of that year. The report which has been brought down to this House in a return which I moved for, says that Mr. ,T. H. M. Parker brought in 413 immigrants for whom he was paid $978 in the fiscal year 1902-3, and that from the 30th of June to the 31st of December 1903 he brought in 334 persons, for whom he got $761. Mr. Parker writes to the public press-I find this in the ' Mail and Empire ' of the 30th of January-that there is three times as much moneyspent in the United Staes for immigrants as there should be, and that not half as many people are brought in as ought to be brought in for one-third of the money. He goes on to say that out of 17 immigrants who are there on salary, only five are at work ; the otherssimply get agents to work for them and

they are paid by commission. He says there was an agent in Indianapolis for five years who sent only three men into this country. I do not know whether that is strictly true or not ; but I know that Mr. Scott, in his evidence before the committee this session, said that Mr. E. P. Holmes was appointed to Indianapolis on the 12th of January, 1900. that he was there until June. 1902, and that he did not report that he had sent any immigrants into this country from that place.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   EDITION
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July 21, 1904