July 21, 1904

LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Farmers ; I do not think there are business men concerned in it at all. They are men who are interested in the growing of seeds. The work of growing seeds has been gradually increasing in this country, and there has been correspondence with the officers of my department for about four years, until it has culminated in this gathering which took place at Ottawa. It was in consequence of a general interest which has been felt in the country at large and resulting in a request for a gathering of all those who were interested to organize themselves for the purpose in view. They formed themselves into an organization and passed by-laws, a copy of which I have under my hand. I will read to the committee the one which indicates the objects of the association :

The object of this association is to advance the interests of seed growers and other farmers

by,

(a) Making regulations respecting the growing, selecting and preserving of seeds of various kinds of farm crops for the guidance of its members ;

(b) Causing records to be kept of the history

of seeds produced by members ; .

(c) Fixing standards for seeds that may be eligible for registration ;

(d) Publishing information as to standards;

(e) Issuing certificates of registration to members by which hand selected seed or the product therefrom may be known from other seeds;

(f) Such other means as may be expedient from time to time.

Then they went on to adopt certain rules and regulations :

The general officers of this association shall consist of a president, three vice-presidents, a secretary and ten directors, elected each year at the annual meeting, which body shall have power to add five directors to its number.

Then it goes on to define the duties of these officers in the usual way under incorporation.

Membership. The association may admit as operating members the persons now enrolled as members of the Macdonald, Robertson Seed Growers' Association, any person resident in Canada who may choose to make seed-growing a special branch of their farm operations, and who agree to conform to bylaws and regulations of the association.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I think it would be better to change that word 1 may ' into * shall.' ' May ' leaves it optional.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

There is no objection to that change. This is the other section relating to membership. The association may admit as honorary members persons who may be directly or indirectly interested in agriculture in Canada, hut who may not be producers of seed, and such honorary members shall be eligible to hold office or otherwise enjoy all of the privileges provided for the members of the association.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

Do I understand that honorary members will be entitled to vote in making the by-laws ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

They would here..

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

That is a very extraordinary privilege to give honorary members.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

Edmund Boyd Osler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. OSLER.

I think the minister said this Bill was based upon the Live Stock Associations Law. On the face of it, this looks like a monopoly. An important clause of the Live Stock Bill is to be left out, clause 8 which reads :

The association may consist of annual subscribers and life members, and the annual and life membership fees shall be fixed by the members at the annual meeting or at a meeting of the association called for that purpose.

2. Any person who has not been expelled from the association may become a member thereof by giving or sending his name and address to the secretary, together with the annual or life membership fee ; and such person shall thereupon be entitled to the rights and privileges, and subject to the liabilities of a member as fully as if he had signed the application for the incorporation of the association.

That covers all the points that appear to be left out in this Bill.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I do not thiuk there is any objection to that. It was left out because, for the present at any rate, there was no intention of charging fees for giving certificates. It is not intended to charge for registration. That is the only reason it is left out.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

Edmund Boyd Osler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. OSLER.

In time these certificates may become valuable, and the association would naturally charge a fee for them, and that would create a serious monopoly.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

There is not only no intention or desire to create a monopoly, but there is every intention and desire to prevent the creation of a monopoly by this Bill. The suggestion of my hon. friend is well worthy of consideration and it will obviate the difficulty that has been referred to.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

There may be a condition adopted in regard to the payment of fees. The association could include in its regulations a provision that a member who pays his annual fee is entitled to such a certificate free just the same as a member who would be in a live stock association, although if a pedigree is got out there is a charge.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

I thought the hon. minister would conclude reading the proposed by-laws of the association.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

These by-laws are rather voluminous. There is a number of them that are the ordinary by-laws of any association and which deal with the duties of the office. I hardly think it is worth wlrle to go over them all in detail.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

Seymour Eugene Gourley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. GOURLEY.

Read the by-law about membership.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I have just read that. My hon. friend from East Grey (Mr. Sproule) suggested that the word ' shall ' be substituted for ' may.' I think that is wise. My hon. friend from Bothwell (Mr. Clancyl asks whether honorary members have the power of voting and controlling the organization. I think that power ought not to be given to honorary members. Any person who does not wish to join the asso-cation and pay his fee I do not think should have the power of voting and perhaps controlling the association. I would suggest that a change should be made in these by-laws.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
Permalink
CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

Has the hon. gentlemau under his hand the by-law which relates to the issue of certificates of registration ? That is a very important matter.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Yes, as regards registration of seeds it says :

There will be three distinct classes of registration for seed :

1. In the hand-selected class there will he registered as ' hand-selected registered seed,'

only seed obtained from beads selected by hand from the plants relatively the most vigorous and productive on a registered hand-selected seed plot of at least the third year. The registration certificate 1 hand-selected registered seed ' will show the number of years of antecedent selection, as for instance, ' hand-selected registered seed of the fourth year ' or the tenth year as the case may be. Such seed will be suitable for use oil hand-selected seed plots to produce ' improved registered seed.'

2. In the improved class there will be registered as ' improved registered seed ' only grain obtained from a crop produced from hand-selected registered seed. The registration certificate of improved registered seed will show the number of years of antecedent selection of the crop from which it was obtained, as for instance, ' improved registered seed from a crop of the third year ' or of the tenth year as the case may be. Such seed will be suitable for use on improved seed plots to produce ' general crop registered seed.'

3. In the general crop class there will be registered as ' general crop registered seed ' only seed obtained from a crop produced from improved registered seed. Such seed will be suitable for use for the general crop of the farm, and the product from it will not be eligible for registration.

That is the rule in regard to the registration of seed as proposed. I may say that the gentlemen who drew up these rules have been engaged in the production of selected seeds for three or four years. About four years ago Sir William Macdonald, of Montreal, offered a certain sum to be distributed in prizes amongst people who would select seed, hand packing it, selecting it and growing it under certain rules and regulations. These people have more or less multiplied and the seed that has been produced from their hand selected seed has been sold as such seed. It is partly out of that that the Seed Growers' Association has grown. The work has been carried on very largely under the direction of Prof. Robertson, who has been entrusted by Sir William Macdonald with the administration of the fund offered for prizes.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

How is the certificate perpetuated or transferred from one holder of the seed to another ? For instance the seed may undergo a change by passing tliroug'h three or four hands and yet it is the same seed. I have heard no provision or rules so far by which that certificate will pass from one person to another. It is the same seed, but how will you preserve its identity until it is finally disposed of for sowing- purposes ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

It would have to be accompanied by a ticket or certificate, the grower having just so many tickets for so many bushels. In the event of a man raising fifty bushels of a certain seed he would get fifty tickets. Each one of them would accompany a bushel of seed and if the seed passed through two or three hands Mr. FISHER.

more it would be accompanied by a ticket in the same way as when an animal is sold it is accompanied by a certificate.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
Permalink
CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

Would the certificate issued to the grower be a sufficient warrant in the hands of the second holder or in the hands of the next person to establish the identity of the seed ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   SEED-GROWERS' ASSOCIATIONS.
Permalink

July 21, 1904