July 19, 1904

CON

Charles Edwin Kaulbach

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. KAULBACH.

Private individuals, capital subscribed. The prospectus is as follows :

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   C995 COMMONS
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THE EATON ICE PROCESS.


Ice of absolutely pure quality and free from bacteria, can be made in large quantities by the Eaton process for 10 cents per ton laid down in the icehouse. Present cost of production. Ice of much inferior quality, such as is obtained from the St. Lawrence or Back river, costs 75 cents per ton laid down, and is sold by the trade to large customers at $2 to $3 per ton, delivered at their place of business. Comparative qualities. While all river or lake ice, even the very finest, contains great numbers of germs and impurities dangerous to the health, Eaton ice is absolutely free from both, being made from water which has undergone careful scientific Alteration. Nor does it contain air-bubbles, which in the ordinary article cause a loss of 40 per cent by melting, Eaton ice is hard as flint, so hard that it has a metallic rirg, and it can neither rot nor become honeycombed. The absence of imbedded air prevents it from melting and from creating any moisture, it can only evaporate from the outside. Thus while dealers now are compelled to lay in a stock of 8,000 tons of ordinary ice for every 5,000 which they deliver during the season in order to effect a clear loss of 3,000 tons by melting, no loss of any consequence would occur with the Eaton ice, the loss by evaporation being merely nominal. Absolute certainty of supply. Ice famines are of no infrequent occurrence, owing to mild winters which do not permit the formation of cakes sufficiently thick to survive the storage period. The thinner the cakes of ice which are collected from the river, the greater will be the subsequent loss from melting in the icehouse during the summer. The Eaton process obviates this danger in its entirety, while cold weather enables the process to be worked to the best advantage, there is no necessity for greater cold than that of the ordinary freezing weather which prevails in Canada for several months in the year. At a temperature 25, or 26 F or 30 or 40 C., one half inch of ice can be made per hour or 12 inches in 24 hours. With lower temperatures, it is made correspondingly faster. The horizontal dimensions of the ice cake are of course, limited only by the space available for the ice-bed and by the amount of the water supply. This would seem to prove that Canada is the country par excellence for working the Eaton process. Comparative cost of production Good river By Eaton ice process. Sawing, per ton $0 14 None. Carting 0 50 Packing 0 06 Melting 0 25 Cost of manufacture of Eaton ice in an 8,000 ton house. Two hundred gallons of water from city mains, at 20 cents per thousand gallons, making 4 cents for water used to make one ton of ice Cost of water for 8,000 tons of ice.. ..$320 00 Labour, 6 men 30 days, at $1 50 270 00



Actual cost of making ice in 8,000 ton house is therefor 71 cents. To this must be added the interest charges on outlay for ground and plant. Larger plants will work cheaper still, because a considerable saving can be made in the cost of building and wages. Plant and machinery.-The Eaton process works entirely without chemicals or machinery. Nature alone does the work of freezing. An expensive plant, therefore, is unnecessary; only, houses to store the ice, with a water power attached to each for the treatment of the water, all built of 'the plainest materials. A 20.000 tons plant can be put up in this city lor about $10,000, and larger plants propor-tionably cheaper Size of Canadian market.-According to carefully collected statistics, there are consumed annually in the city of Montreal, at least 500,000 tons of ice, and in Toronto double that quantity, while the joint consumption of the lesser cities may be put down at another '$500,000 tons, or at least 2,000,000 tons per annum, in Ontario, Quebec and the lower provinces. This is believed to be a very conservative estimate. Besides this local consumption, there is an unlimited Held for export . for if the city of Portland, Maine, can export 5,000,000 tons of ordinary >ice per season. ice which has to be brought 160 miles by rail, leaving 50 per cent of its substance in transit, there is manifestly no reason why St. Jrhi. and Halifax could not build up a large business by shipping Eaton ice made at the wharfs and losing only a paltry percentage by evaporation. Ordinary good ice sold during the hot season, commands as much as $20 per ton at New Orleans, and $12 to $15 per ton at St. Louis ; France and England, too, are ready to pay high prices for good ice. Canadian company to work the Eaton process [DOT]-Mr. Eaton is the sole owner of the patents covering his process of making ice and handling water in Canada He has conveyed to the Union Ice Co., Canada, the sole right to use his process in the province of Ontar'o, Quebec, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island for the full term of the life of the patents. He has undertaken also to give to this company the free uses of any further improvements which he may make in his process, for the above territory. The capital of the Union Ice Company is $500,000 in 100,000 shares of the par value of $5 each, fully paid and non-assessable. If a suitable property can be acquired, and a 20,000 ton plant erected, which can he done easily In three or four weeks, so as to be ready for the first cold weather in January, the house ought to be filled with ice before January 1st. 'When this has been done, the local ice trade can be given an opportunity to examine into the quality of the ice, the working of the process, the cost of production, and their own chances of competing with a system which works far cheaper and more certainly than the river. There being no desire to interfere with their trade, they can be offered all the ice they want at a figure considerably below what they are. paying now ; the stock necessary to fill their contracts can he carried for them in the company's houses until delivery time, and thus they will be saved the large outlay in cash for sawing, carting and packing, which they now must lace every winter. If they decide to act thus as distributors of ice only, they will be able to get along without their icehouses and may realize upon their real estate' and buildings. These inducements are thought to be so palpably plain that the trade will become at once the company's customers and all enmity and ill-feeling will be avoided. I must apologize. Mr. Speaker, for occupying the time of the House in reading this lengthy description of the system of ice production. I may say also that Mr. Eaton has described to me the virtue of the ice that is thus made. He says that the water goes through an electric process which deprives it of all the germs that water would naturally possess. The ice thus formed is therefore clear of all impurities of every description, and retains its congealed quality much longer that if it had not undergone this electric process. He further says in his prospectus that it removes all air globules from t'he ice. which in ordinary ice have a tendency to destroy the fish or meat when it is brought in contact with them. He further says, as I have remarked on a previous occasion in speaking on this subject. that the ice made by this process retains all the phosphoric properties contained in the fish or meat ; whereas by the ordinary process of packing these articles in ice, those properties disappear much sooner. He also states that fish when deprived of its phosphoric properties is worthless, even as bait, and the fish will not take it. He goes on further to say that when ordinary bait is removed from the icehouse and taken on board a fishing craft, the bait will last but a very short time, whereas by his process it will last considerable longer. He also told me that he would think nothing of wrapping a pound of ice in a piece of thick paper, putting it into his satchel and travelling to Boston and back, and the ice would he in almost as perfect a condition as when he started. If that is the case it certainly offers many advantages over any other method of manufacturing ice that I have yet heard of. I have occupied a considerable time in givin expression to my views in regard to the question of dog-fish and



the remedy to be applied for the purpose of securing the removal of this pest with which tlie fishing industry of the maritime provinces has to contend. I sincerely hope the hon. Minister of Marine and Fisheries will seriously take the matter into his consideration and act in a prompt manner in order that the fishermen of the maritime provinces may have the encouragement which they anticipate they will receive from the bounty which I suggest. I do not suggest a bounty of a merely nominal sum to the industry but a bounty sufficient to induce the fishermen to work actively to accomplish the end which is desirable, that is the removal of the dogfish from our coast. It need not be a permanent thing. It need only be given a trial. If it is found that it does not work satisfactorily a change can be made and the hon. jninister can adopt other methods.


LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Hon. W. S. FIELDING (Minister of Finance).

Mr. Speaker, while the interest in this subject may be limited to a number of members in this House, I think its importance to the maritime provinces fully justifies the time and attention that have been given to it to-day. As the representative of a fishing constituency and as a minister from the maritime provinces, I naturally have the warmest interest in the subject.^ I have had much correspondence concerning it with people in the fishing business, including some of the gentlemen whose names have been mentioned in the discussion to-day and whose large experience entitles their opinions to the utmost consideration. I have repeatedly been in communication with my hon. friend the Minister of Marine and Fisheries (Mr. Prefontaine) on the subject, who at all times has manifested the warmest interest in the matter and the strongest desire to bring about some satisfactory solution. As he has indicated in the answers which he has given to questions which have been asked during the session, difficulties have been met with owing to the wide differences of opinion as to what is the best mode of dealing with the evil. That the evil exists, and that it is a great one, is fully realized, but the proper method of dealing wtth the matter is a question which necessarily requires time for consideration. 1 can only say that my hon. friend the Minister of Marine and Fisheries has repeatedly' assured me that it is his desire to co-operate with the maritime representatives in the matter, and when I came recently to prepare the supplementary estimates for the current year, which are not yet before the House, the hon. minister asked me to include a considerable sum to enable him to carry on some experiments along the line of what has been the general expression of opinion this afternoon ; that is, the establishment of reduction works for the treatment of dog-fish, both as to the preparation of the dog-fish as *a food product and as to the production of Mr. KAULBACH.

oil and fertilizers. I can assure my bon. friends opposite, who have spoken on the subject, that my hon. friend the Minister of Marine and Fisheries is entirely in sympathy with all that has been said, and has given the most substantial evidence of that fact by asking me to give him the necessary appropriation to carry out these proposed experiments.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

Aaron Abel Wright

Liberal

Mr. A. A. WRIGHT.

Mr. Speaker, L would like to ask the hon. Minister of Fin ance if any attempt has been made to establish a cold storage service once a week between the maritime provinces and the province of Ontario. I allude now to the transportation of such fish as kippered herring and finnan haddies. I do not allude to those kinds that are in tin cans, but I refer to the kinds that are packed in boxes. We begin to receive them from the maritime provinces, St. John particularly, in November. They begin then to send them to us by express. The express companies have given us a very low rate on fish, but the difficulty is that we cannot get them at every season of the year. If the Lenten season is very late in the spring, we want a supply of fish, and to get this supply we must have a cold storage service from the maritime provinces to Ontario. If a car came up once a week, leaving St. John or some other maritime port every Wednesday or Thursday so that we could have the fish here by Friday, and we knew that a car was coming every week, it would be a great advantage to us. We are anxious to receive this fish in Ontario. We cannot get them unless we get them from the maritime provinces, and why can we not have fish the same as the people in the maritime provinces have ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

Something has been done along the lines suggested by my hon. friend, but there is ample room for expansion , as he has suggested. The Intercolonial Railway, and I think the Canadian Pacific Railway, are providing some facilities for bringing fish in cold storage, but I believe that tlie opportunities for an expansion of this business in the upper provinces are very great indeed, and I am delighted to hear my hon. friend say that the people of Ontario are looking forward to obtaining supplies in that way. Something has been done, but there is ample room for improvement on the part of both of the railways.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

I am told that an express car is run from Vancouver to Boston, attached to the Imperial Limited, which carries an enormous mass of halibut every day in the week, and surely if this can be carried all the way from British Columbia to Boston and sold at remunerative prices, the fish of the maritime provinces could be taken to Ontario, Quebec and even farther west.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

Fletcher Bath Wade

Liberal

Mr. F. B. WADE.

Mr. Speaker, I think the discussion which has taken place to-day

must be productive of great good, because there seems to be but one opinion on both sides of the House, and that is that everything possible should be done for the benefit of this great industry- The fishing industry of the Dominion of Canada is worth about 823,000,000 annually. The fishing industry of the province of Nova Scotia is worth some $8,000,000 annually, and an industry of those proportions in a province of the size of Nova Scotia is one of very great importance indeed. I am sure that we are all anxious that it shall be fostered in every conceivable way, and I am glad to say that in all the communications I have had with the present Minister of Marine and Fisheries (Mr. PrSfontaine) and his officials, they have always manifested the greatest interest in this industry and the desire and determination to do all they can to benefit it. In regard to the fishing industry as a whole, one of the great questions in connection with it is the transportation question. There is no doubt about that. If you have fish ir the maritime provinces and you have consumers in Ontario, you must have means of transportation in order to get the fish from one place to the other. Unfortunately in Nova Scotia large sections of the fishing country have been deprived of transportation facilities, particularly from Halifax to Barrington and Yarmouth, and from Halifax east to the Strait of Canso. But it will only be a short time until we have a railway in operation along the southwest coast of Nova Scotia, and I trust that in the near future we will have a railway to the east from Halifax to the Strait of Canso. Then, with refrigerator cars, it will be possible to send large quantities of fresh fish to the markets of the west.

In regard to the methods that are being pursued at the present time, although the methods have been improved very considerably, I think it will be necessary in the near future for the fishermen of the maritime provinces to make very radical changes in the methods they have been pursuing because of the change in the market. They have to turn to the home markets more than in the past, because the West India markets, for reasons which I need not now stop to mention, are being lessened. 1 Already this work has been begun, and firms are being established to prepare fish in the most attractive forms, and they are shipping as far west as Winnipeg and Regina. I agree that while the fisheries in Nova Scotia are worth $8,000,000 annually there is no reason why, with certain improvements, these fisheries could not be made to be worth at least $15,000,000 per annum in a very short time. That is a very great consideration. To illustrate that, I may say I know of a locality in my own county which is bordering on the Bay of Fundy. A few years ago I suppose the whole output from this one settlement was not more than- $500 or $000 a year. But a pier has been erected at this place, which enables the fishermen to carry 2231

on their industry during the winter, which is the time for the haddock fishery, and as a result the output from that place is something like $20,000 a year.

The government is every year providing facilities to enable the fishermen to more profitably prosecute their calling. The result in the place I have mentioned is that we have received back in return more than $20,000 per year, and wherever that can be done the industry will be stimulated. I am glad that parliament is so alive to the great disadvantages our fishermen are labouring under because of the presence of these dog-fish. For some two or three years I have had my attention called to this matter very closely ; I have had communications with fishermen and with fish dealers, and with the Minister of Marine and Fisheries and the officers of his department. Everybody recognizes the evil, but the great question has been how it can be remedied. The government has been ready to do everything it can do, but the question remains what shall be done ? There has been a difference of opinion, and that is natural because people cannot very well decide how it is possible to provide a remedy. Many intelligent people tell me it is idle to think of exterminating the dog-fish ; others think they can be exterminated. There is a great deal of capital invested in the shore fisheries and a great many men are dependent on these fisheries for their livelihood. During the season this dog-fish scourge is on, these men are absolutely unable to earn a dollar. They go out in their boats and attempt to fish, but the lines are seized by the dog-fish and cut and the hook carried away, so that it is impossible for the fishermen to pursue their calling. If some means were adopted by which the fishermen during this season could catch dog-fish and make a small wage, even if it were only a dollar a day, it would save them from actual want which often results now. I have had extensive correspondence about this matter with people who are in a position to know, and I think the consensus of opinion among the best informed people is, that the government should do something in the way of aiding the erection of reduction works in eeftain localities along the coast. It would not be necessary for these reduction works to be so very close together, because the fish could be gathered up and delivered to them. The reason I think it would be necessary for the government to assist in this enterprise, is because of the uncertainty of a continuance of this dog-fish evil. They have been here before and have suddenly disappeared and that may happen again at any time let us hope it will happen soon-but that uncertainty is sufficient to deter private capital from engaging in the establishment of reduction works. I therefore think that if the government would assist a private company in the erection of their plant,

requiring them in return to take all the 'dog-fish offered at a stipulated price, the most good could be accomplished. Then, whether the dog-fish were present or not, the fishermen would be enabled to earn a livelihood. I am satisfied that these reduction works could be made substantially self sustaining, but even suppose there was a considerable loss, the government is assisting other industries and it is but right that our great fishing industry should be assisted also. It is a matter for congratulation that there is on this question such a unanimity of opinion in this House ; and that we are all actuated by the one desire to support the Minister of Marine and Fisheries in an earnest endeavour to exterminate this plague and to give courage to our fishermen who'have been so tortured by it in the past.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

Onésiphore Turgeon

Liberal

Mr. O. TURGEON.

I would not venture to occupy the time of the House were it not that my constituents are deeply interested in this question. I can heartily endorse the remarks of the leader of the opposition, and also the remarks made by hon. gentlemen on this side of the House in reference to the importance of our fisheries and the necessity of their preservation. I have the honour to represent a fishing constituency which represents one-third of the fishing industry of the province of New Brunswick; the total value of the fisheries of that province being about $4,000,000 of which $1,500,000 comes from the county of Gloucester. The fishermen of my county have suffered as well as the fishermen of Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island from this dog-fish pest which has been engaging the attention of the Minister of Marine and Fisheries and his department for the last year or two. In the waters frequented by the fishermen of my county on the Prince Edward Island banks as well as along the aorth shore of New Brunswick, these dog-fish have been in existence for over forty years, but until recently in such small numbers that the attention of the fishermen was not particularly attracted to them. Last year, after the first of August the fishing industry carried on in Gloucester county by over 220 fishing vessels virtually ceased, and evidence was given before the commission to show that the resultant loss amounted to over $50,000. The fishermen of my county have urged upon me the necessity of asking that the government shall come to their assistance. Last winter the Minister of Marine and Fisheries was kind enough to appoint what I might call a local commission, consisting of Professor Prince, and Mr. Pierre Morais, of Caraquet, to take the evidence of the fishermen in that district. When we realize that the products of the fisheries amount to $15,000,000 in the maritime provinces, and to $23,000,000 in the whole Dominion, it is easy to see what a great necessity there is for preserving this in-Mr. WADE.

dustry. I believe that with an earnest effort to develop our Canadian fishing industry it could be made to double in value within the course of a few years, so that New Brunswick would produce $8,000,000 or $10,000,000 ; Nova Scotia, $25,000,000 or $30,000,000, and the whole Dominion of Canada, $50,000,000, instead of $23,000,000 as at present. I am glad to say that the government is showing an interest in this matter and that their desire is to encourage the fishermen of the maritime provinces. For a number of years past we have had larger and more numerous appropriations for the construction of breakwaters and lighthouses, all calculated to facilitate the fishermen in the pursuit of their calling so that they may now get in and out of the harbour at night time as well ns in the day. at low tide as at high tide. Instead of having to leave the banks on Friday night or early Saturday morning as was the case a few years ago. in order to get home for Sunday, the fishing fleet can now engage in fishing for a part of the day on Saturday, knowing that in view of the advantages that have been conferred upon them by the government, they can come into the harbour at night, and thus they have more time to prosecute their operations.

The Minister of Marine and Fisheries has certainly shown great interest in dealing with this calamity by appointing commissioners on the subject. While these commissioners have not yet reported, a number of suggestions have been made of more or less practicability. Some of them may be practicable along certain portions of the coasts of the maritime provinces while not practicable along other portions. Some suggestions have been made in this House and outside of this House, which may be practicable along the coast of Cape Breton, but not practicable for the fishing fleet of the county of Gloucester, which is isolated from the other fishing fleets of the maritime provinces. Every means which can be devised to diminish the dog-fish calamity Should be taken as far as practicable. Among the suggestions which have been made is the establishment of fertilizers. I believe in the establishment of these fertilizers along our coasts, and I am surprised that the people of Canada have not sooner realized their necessity. At the same time, if we wait until these fertilizers are ready to do the good work they are likely to do, perhaps our fishermen will have lost patience and will have abandoned the fishing industry entirely. The men engaged in the fishing industry are laborious and active, and, as the hon. leader of the opposition said this morning, their valour and intelligence can be appreciated as well as the valour and intelligence of any other class of the Canadian people. They are willing to grapple with any difficulty and

roi3

aelp themselves out of the difficulty. It has iJso been suggested that a bounty should be said to the fishermen, varying in amount. *Such a bounty seems at first sight to be extravagant, and likely to bring Canada into i very large expenditure. It cannot be so, is our fishermen would only devote to dog-ish time that could not be otherwise utilized ,vhen at sea, on the fishing banks. Our deep-sea fishermen have no ambition to become ishers of dog-fish for the rest of their lives. 1'hey are anxious that the dog-fish pest shall 33 exterminated without their assistance, if oossible. It has been suggested also that the government cruisers employed in projecting the coasts of the maritime provinces should be equipped in order that they may eapture dog-fish in large quantities. They might be equipped with large -seines of strong cord, similar to those which the Americans used in depleting our waters of mackerel and other fish at the time of the Washington treaty. If those men were able with their destructive engines, to destroy such fish as mackerel, we ought to be able ;o -find means for destroying the_ dog-fish, which is threatening to destroy our shore fisheries. I would suggest co-operation between the Department of Marine and Fisheries and the fishermen of the county of Kloucester and of the maritime -provinces it large. I am sure the Minister of Marne and Fisheries has at his command men of ability, energy and tact, who would be willing to give their services and their best ibility to the large interests of the country, nen like Commander Spain and Commander Wakeham, placed at the head of such a fleet, would, I am sure, in the course of a few weeks show, to the advantage of Canada and the advantage of the fishing interests of the maritime provinces, that their efforts would be worth the small expenditure they would cost. I understood that the sum of .$25,000 lias been placed at the command of the Minister of Marine and Fisheries for this emergency. The hon. minister has already assured us that he is ready to combat any imergency, and I believe he is as willing and ready to combat this emergency of the dog-fish calamity, in the interest of the fisheries of the maritime provinces, as he has been to equip the gulf and river St. Lawrence -for navigation. For the destruction of the dog-fish pest prompt and vigorous action is required. Our fishermen cannot afford to wait for three or four years, for in tha-t time, in their ambition, they will certainly leave the country and look for better employment ; and once they leave they will not come back to that industry. We are exerting ourselves to promote the interests of our fishermen. The people of Montreal, Toronto and the west are asking for the fish of the maritime provinces. Let us show our fishermen that they, will be encouraged as well as the men of any other industry. 1 believe that a large amount should be placed at the disposal of the

Minister of Marine and Fisheries. If he does not find the necessity of expending it, he need not expend it ; but it should be there for the occasion. I believe that practical suggestions will be found only as the department engages in the work and looks l'or practical suggestions-it is only when you are at work that the best suggestions come to you ; and I believe the suggestions will receive consideration, not only from the Minister of Marine and Fisheries, but from his hon. colleagues in the Council and from every member of this House.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

Angus McLennan

Liberal

Mr. ANGUS MCLENNAN.

Mr. Speaker, just one word with regard to this very important subject. No member of this House need apologize for calling attention to the importance of an industry which amounts to something like $22,000,000 or $23,000,000 annually to -the Dominion of Canada, Representing, as I do, a very important constituency, containing as it does a seacoast ot about 150 miles, containing also a very important salmon-fishing river, I do not feel that I should apologize for a moment for making a few observations in reference to this matter. With regard to this last commission that has been appointed, I cannot agree with my hon. friend from Victoria (Hon. Wm. Ross) in objecting to the personnel of that commission. I think the personnel of the commission is all right, but it is important to take into account the local conditions in various parts of the country. When our fishing industry is scattered along 5,000 miles of coast, it is obvious that a commission picked from one locality would not be calculated to understand local conditions so readily as a commission picked from the various localities along the coast.

I find, on looking over the personnel of the commission then, that it is composed of gentlemen representing the Bay of Fundy constituencies and the Department of Marine and Fisheries. And if there is to be any change made in its personnel, my oniy suggestion would be that it should be * composed of gentlemen taken from the various parts of the coast, leaving the selection to the hon. Minister of Marine and Fisheries and his colleagues. I must say in passing that I can only add my mede of praise to the conduct of the hon. minister in connection with the duties pertaining to his office. I would call attention particularly to one feature in his administration and that is that he is always ready Ho get rid of ' red tape ' and deal with a measure upon its merits. That certainly has been my experience, and that certainly is a feature of the hon. gentleman's administration well worthy of commendation. As this dogfish pest has assumed such serious proportions as to become a menace to a most valuable industry, there is no need for me to say anything regarding the urgency of our doing something to extirpate it. What re-

quires to be done is for each gentleman from the maritime provinces to offer suggestions as to the means he considers best to get rid of the pest. It has been suggested that a reduction factory should be established for the purpose of enabling this fish to be utilized as a fertilizer, and according to the estimate of the hon. member for Guysborough (Mr. Sinclair) that would cost something like $20,000 for the plant and $20,000 to run it. I am told that this is a very moderate estimate, and I observe in this connection that while the hon. member for Halifax (Mr. Wm. Roche) agrees to this proposition, he couples his endorsation of it with the suggestion that the experiment should be tried on the Halifax coast. He leaves out of consideration the fact that we have a coast of something like 5,000 miles to deal with and that the dog-fish are not disposed to remain on the coast of Halifax any longer than anywhere else along our shores. It may then be urged that if the visits of these fish are of so transitory a character, why make so much ado about them. Well, one week of the dog-fish around our coast" means perhaps two months destruction of our fisheries. Not only do these destroy the fishing lines, but also all the fishing nets and what is more it is well known by fishermen that the presence of this pest on the coast for one week will scare away all species of other fish for weeks at a time. Therefore do I say that the presence of this pest on our coast for one week might lead to the destruction of our fish for two months possibly.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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?

Mr. R. L@

BORDEN. But they do stay much longer.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

Angus McLennan

Liberal

Mr. McLENNAN.

Yes, unfortunately they do, but I am merely supposing a case. An

either of so much per fish caught or so much a gallon for every gallon of oil. TWo most important classes would in this way be benefited, because after the oil would be taken from the fish the residue would make a capital compost to be used on farm lands, and I venture to say that this compost would find a ready market, so that the only expense to which the government would be subjected would be the expense of furnishing the needed incentive in the shape of a bounty for every gallon of oil rendered or every fish caught. There is just one point to which I wish to call attention, and that is -with regard to the lobster fishing industry, and I refer to this because the commission has not yet finished its work. I .would call attention to it in particular to the operations along our coast. No doubt the investigations of the previous commission have been productive of the very greatest good, but there are certainly some defects in the conclusions at which they arrived. One of these defects is the great inequalities in the length of the season in different districts. I would therefore suggest that the commission pay particular attention to the equalizing of the lobster fishing season around the Island of Cape Breton. There is nearly a month's difference in the time within which fishermen can prosecute that industry in different parts of the coast around that island. I am sure the House will agree that a difference of three weeks in the open season in one locality is quite unrea sonable.

With regard to the proposition to establish factories for the manufacture of oil and other valuable products from the dogfish. I would again say that this- would be a very costly way of disposing of the fish, although it might be profitable in some localities. The great obstacle would be the difficulty of applying such a system along 5,000 miles of coast. From the southern side of the Bay of Fundy to Labrador there is a fishing coast of that length and to establish these factories would involve an immense expense. What is more, the fish is of a migratory character and when a factory had been built at great expense perhaps in three weeks after its completion this pest would migrate to another shore. I would therefore press upon the government the choice of giving a bounty per head for every dog-fish taken or else of so much a gallon for every gallon of oil extracted. In this way the whole coast would be covered much better than by experimenting in any one locality.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Does my hon. friend think the fish could be used for food to any extent ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

Angus McLennan

Liberal

Mr. McLENNAN.

I have never heard of it being used for food among our people.

(Mr. WADE. I believe that some have been canned.

.TTTT.Y 19. 1904

Mr. McLennan. Not that I have heard of. The oil is quite valuable, and as a fertilizer they are excellent. The farmers along out coast woukj lose no time I am sure in adopting them as a fertilizer and paying the fishermen for them. I make these observations on behalf of the fishermen along the 150 miles of coast in the county which I have the honour to represent. What holds true of that coast, no doubt holds true of several other constituencies in the province from which I come.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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IND

Jabel Robinson

Independent

Mr. JABEL ROBINSON.

Might I ask the hon. gentleman if the dog-fish has ever been analysed so that we might be able to tell whether it is fit for food or only for manure ? Before we undertake to discuss the dog-fish, we should know its component parts, and what it is fit for. It has been discussed ever since we started this morning at 11 o'clock, but I have yet to learn what it is good for. It seems to be a great evil to the fishermen, and we should know what it is worth.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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LIB

Angus McLennan

Liberal

Mr. MCLENNAN.

Dog-fish have been analysed and are found good as food. I think 90 per cent of the fish is good for food, and the bi-products form excellent fertilizers.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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CON

Seymour Eugene Gourley

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. S. E. GOLFRLEY.

I was glad to bear the hon. member for West Elgin ask this [DOT]question, because I apprehend that this question should be discussed by the people of Ontario more than by the people of the maritime provinces. This is one of the vital questions of Canada. The fishery Interests of the maritime provinces are the mqst vital in Canada. They are infinitely superior to the wheat interests, the mineral interests or the agricultural interests of Canada. This matter should be taken up in the most liberal spirit so that the government if necessary may spend not only $100,000, but $1,000,000 to exterminate this pest. This is a new menace to the fishing interests in the maritime provinces. What we want is a commission that will summon to its aid the most scientific knowledge in the country to determine where these dogfish grow and then to ascertain the best and most effective means to secure their extermination, because exterminated they must be, otherwise they will destroy the fishing industries in Canada. They are the most important industries in the wolrld. Down by the seas you have a maritime and a commercial people. Without a maritime and commercial population this country would be inland, and inland countries have ever been failures. You must have a mercantile country. The men who control the sea, who go abroad, are the ones who determine the character of a country. You train these men in the fisherise of the maritime provinces, and if you want a navy

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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?

An hon. MEMBER.

Oh, oh. .

Topic:   SUPPLY-DOG-FISH PEST.
Subtopic:   THE EATON ICE PROCESS.
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July 19, 1904