June 24, 1904

L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

I read the rules of parliament very carefully, and I do not want to trespass on the rules of parliament but if you say that the word trickery is unparliamentary, I shall retract the word.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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LIB

Lawrence Geoffrey Power (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I certainly say it is unparliamentary ; there is no question about it at all.

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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

I retract the word. Is deception unparliamentary ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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LIB

Lawrence Geoffrey Power (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I think so.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

Then how in the name of goodness can I use a term that is parliamentary ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

Order, order.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

I cannot get any language that is not unparliamentary which is fit to characterize the action of the hon. the Minister of Agriculture.

We have here the ' Gazette ' brought up by Colonel Smart. At the head it is dated 174

May 19, 1904. That is the ' Gazette ' as it left the department. It is signed ' Dun-donald, Major General.' Then there is a note : 'As a special ease, so and so will be required to pass the qualifying examination.' Then we find a note : ' not approved, Sydney Fisher, for F. W. Borden,' and there it is dated for Mr. Fisher's signature, May 19, 1904. I am not going to say when that was sent to the Council, all I know is that the Minister of Militia has confessed that he slipped out of the city leaving the matter and told the deputy to arrange it with the Minister of Agriculture and that Colonel Smart also says it was prearranged, that whether Dr. Pickel withdrew or not, his name was to be dropped, but for the sake of form, in order to prevent any ruction in the regiment, Dr. Pickel was to be induced if possible to withdraw. We have the statement of the Minister of Agriculture that Colonel Smart came to him as though it was a matter of surprise with this ' Gazette ' and asked to have it shoved through Council on that day, and we have his admission, drawn from him by the leader of the opposition, that he had prearranged that whether Dr. Pickel withdrewor not that name was to be dropped. I leave it to the Prime Minister in his calm moments to supply me with a word that will cover the action of the Minister of Agri culture. 1 can find no parliamentary term harsh enough to characterize it.

The minister claimed a good deal of credit for appointing young Holland over Mr. Russell, a Liberal. He did not state that he had first insisted on Mr. Russell being appointed to command the squadron and on its being objected to, he consented to Mr. Holland being appointed. He stated that it was his action that forced Holland over Russell. I want to tell him that men who are regarded by people of the eastern townships as much more reliable than he is state the contrary, and that the minister first wished Russell's name to go and then he consented to Holland's name being placed over Russell's.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

There is absolutely no foundation for that statement.

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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

I have a great deal of foundation in my hand for it.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I demand that the hon. gentleman shall show the statements he has which he says will prove it.

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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

I want the Minister of Agriculture to remember that I do not require any statement to show him or any one else in this House. I want the Minister of Agriculutre to know that my word passes current where his word will not be accepted, and that when I make a statement in this House I am not going to have any four-cornered gentleman to get up and demand of me that I give the name or the letter in order that the little, petty, persecuting tyrannny of the Minister of Agriculture-

Some bon. MEMBERS. Hear, bear.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

I want bim to understand where be belongs. He also claims- and I am witbin the judgment of this House, if yesterday as on a former occasion, be did not make it appear deliberately that Captain Adams or whatever bis rank may be was a resident of the eastern townships and knew the country well. He did not tell us, although he must have known it to be true, that Captain Adams has been a resident of Montreal for a long time, and that gentlemen who live in Montreal know the eastern townships as well as Dr. Adams. He wanted to make it appear that he wished Captain Adams to be appointed as third in command because he lived in the eastern townships. He did not say so in so many words, but he gave that impression by that power of equivocating that he possesses, of saying a thing to be taken one way but to mean something different. Captain Adams does not live in the eastern townships. Captain Adams lives in Montreal. The Minister of Militia has made the statement that he communicated with Colonel Whitley some time ago in relation to this matter. May I ask him whether he has brought down the correspondence in that behalf 1

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LIB

Frederick William Borden (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Liberal

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

As I informed my hon. friend the leader of the opposition, I sent a letter to Colonel Whitley asking for his permission to do so. I hope to have that to-day, and I will bring down the papers as soon as I get it.

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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

The Minister of Agriculture has boasted that he wished to give Major Carr the command of ' E ' squadron, and that he knew that Major Carr was a Tory. He wished to make out that he was going to do this out of the magnanimity of his heart. What was his game ? It was to give that to Major Carr so that he could put a Liberal in command of the Knowlton squadron in Major Carr's place. He also boasts that lie accepted Surgeon-Major Macdonald and Surgeon-Lieutenant Martin for the regiment. He did not tell us that he understood that Doctor Macdonald was going to retire, and that in that event, ignoring the claims of Surgeon-Lieutenant Martin, a doctor of great experience in the eastern townships, he wished to place over his head another doctor who is a Liberal. Another point in connection with that is. that of the two squadrons transferred from the 6th Hussars one was commanded by a Liberal and the other by a Conservative, and they are both capable and efficient cavalry officers. For the new squadrons two Liberals were selected and one Conservative, Doctor Picket Does that look like partisanship on the part of Colonel Smart ? And yet, according to the Minister of Agriculture, this was going to be made a Tory hive by Colonel Smart and Colonel Whitley, a life-long Liberal. The Minister of Agriculture speaks of the Baker clique.

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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

Has he produced the slightest tittle of evidence, other than his own words, to prove that the Baker clique, as he calls them, directly or indirectly, sought to influence these people politically ? He knows, if he knows anything about that district-and I do not think he knows much about it-that the rifle ranges are on the property of Doctor Pickel and his friends, that it is there they practice, that the grain is trampled down every year by the people coming to the rifle shooting, and that Doctor Pickel is the leading man in that district in every respect, except the one of military qualification.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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?

Some hon. MEMBERS

Oh.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

Yes, and if my hon. friend the Minister of Agriculture had been managing in the veldt, he would have ruled out Christian DeWet and General Delarey on the same ground as he ruled out Doctor Pickel ; because I am satisfied that they are both sensible men, and would have been Tories as well as good soldiers.

The Minister of Militia, according to the Toronto ' Globe,' referred to the- Genera! Officer Commanding as having made very impolitic speeches when he was sent out to the Pacific coast in British Columbia. I do not remember what the General Officer Commanding said, but I saw it reported at ihe time, and I thought he was very temperate in his remarks. Every school boy should know that the two islands about which hon. gentlemen opposite made so much fuss in order to create a prejudice against British institutions, are utterly worthless from a strategic point of view, f saw it stated in the government organ that the minister was very much displeased because Lord Dundonakr had made those speeches, so that he must have said something in a lucid moment.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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LIB

Frederick William Borden (Minister of Militia and Defence)

Liberal

Sir FREDERICK BORDEN.

Since my hon. friend has referred to that, I may say that this is what took place. I found that the General Officer Commanding, without my consent, without consulting me, was making a trip to the islands referred to, about which so much discussion has taken place. I telegraphed to the General Officer Commanding to be good enough to get a letter which I was writing to him, and which would be addressed to Victoria, British Columbia. That letter requested him particularly, under the circumstances, to say nothing in public with reference to the matter. He disregarded my instructions absolutely. He got the letter, but paid no attention to it. He took the very first opportunity to make speeches, and he made them on every public occasion in British Columbia.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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Mr. SAM@

as they did, if they ever did so. Supposing Lord Dundonald did commit a breach of etiquette by making the speech he did at Montreal, he had two or three courses open to him. He could have appealed to the Prime Minister and no doubt his appeal v/ould have been pigeon-holed ; or if he sent it to the Minister of Militia, that minister would likely have refused to forward it. He could have resigned and washed his hands of the whole business and gone out of the country with a great name, or he could have taken the course he did; and I maintain that in taking that course he has shown that he was actuated by the highest regard for the interests of this country. In any event, the worst charge brought against him is that he committed a breach of etiquette. But what were the offences of the Minister of Agriculture 1 That minister was guilty of a breach of etiquette just the same as Lord Dundonald was. When Lord Dundonald telephoned him to arrange a meeting, the minister said : I will go and see you. But he never did. Lord Dundonald telephoned again, and the minister again said : I will call around at your office and see you. And he never kept his promise. That was a breach of etiquette.

Topic:   SUPPLY-DISMISSAL OF LORD DUN-DONALD.
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An hon. MEMBER.

A breach of promise.

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June 24, 1904