Mr. LEFURGEY.

-We have a lighthouse at Summerside harbour, and I would like to know if this acetylene light is to be used there. If so, I would suggest that the substructure of the lighthouse should be repaired before putting in these expensive lights. I called attention a few days ago to this. The department should see that the Summerside lighthouse is put in proper repair and also the breakwater. I noticed the other evening, when the hon. member for West Prince (Mr. Hackett) was asking why the ' Stanley ' was taken off the Sum-inerside and Cape Tormentine route, the reply was that the quantity of ice there made it too dangerous to leave the boat on that route. I take issue with the hon. gentleman. Where the hon. minister got his information I do not know, but I can only tell him that the ice, when the ' Stanley ' was taken away in December last, was no impediment whatever. The ' Stanley ' left on a very fine day. It took five hours to cross, which was an unusually long time with the conditions of the weather and the ice conditions in the harbour. In the meantime, during the whole fine day, with no notice or warning to any of the merchants or shippers of Prince Edward Island, without a word to those shipping their goods from the mainland to Prince Edward Island via Cape Tormentine, the boat left Cape Tormentine in the afternoon for Georgetown. They did not even wire to the shippers at Summerside until after the boat had left. In the meantime, the shippers at Summerside were hauling their freight, grain and products of one kind and another down to Summerside wharf to be shipped. It was not only an insult to the commercial interests of Prince Edward Island, but it was a wholly uncalled for act on the part of the department and their agents and Captain Brown upon whom * they were, apparently, depending to take the boat away from Summerside when we had absolutely fine weather and the ice conditions were favourable. Let me tell the committee something about the ice conditions. On the 28th December, 1903, there were six miles of ice, that had caught with the frost of practically the last night or two. In the heaviest part of it this ice was only two inches thick. We know the capacity of the ' Stanley.'

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

If the hon. gentleman (Mr. Lefurgey) will allow me, we are not on the item of which he is speaking. I raise the question of order, Mr. Chairmin, We are on gas at the present time,, while the hon. gentleman is speaking about ice,; I think he is out of order.

Mr. LEFURGEY.

I gathered from the acrimonious discussion that has gone on

that the whole field of the hon. gentleman's department was open for discussion.

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

Not at all.

Mr. LEFURGEY.

And we have even gone beyond the department and have been discussing the Patent Law.

Mr. PRBFONTAINE.

That applied to gas.

Mr. LEFURGEY.

Well, I am going to try to get the minister to light these steamers with acetylene. Perhaps it will help to break the ice. This is a matter of interest to the committee and to the minister's department. The discussion of the subject has been opened and I think nothing will be gained by trying to rule me out of order. For, this is a matter that will be discussed.

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

^1 rise to a question of order. If we are here to stay all night, at least we should follow the rules.

Mr. LEFURGEY.

I submit that I introduced this subject on the Summerside lighthouse, and I am now moving toward the Cape Tormentine light ; and I want to get the track clear of ice. As I said, the steamer passing out from the Summerside lighthouse with only two inches of ice backed up some twenty odd times. She got out of the harbour very easily but took a much longer time than she usually takes. She got down off Cape Tormentine lighthouse in about five hours. As I said, the conditions were as favourable for the boat continuing this service as at any time during the year, and the department are certainly to blame for allowing her to be taken away.. Now, I turn to the report of the Minister of Marine and Fisheries and I find here a letter from the deputy minister on the island service. I must say I take issue with the explanations of the Deputy Minister. I think I know as much about the conditions there as the Deputy Minister does, and I submit that the report is, to a large extent not correct, but conveys a wrong impression as to the situation in regard to the winter, service. The minister told us last session that he was going down to Prince Edward Island to look over the service, and he| did go down.

Mr. PREFONTAINE.

I rise to a question of order. The item under discussion is * salaries and allowances to lighthouse keepers,' and with this the question of the service between Prince Edward Island and the mainland has nothing to do. If we are going to stay all night we will stay all night, but we might as well follow the rules. If the hon. gentleman was not here last night to discuss the question when the item under which it would properly arise was before the committee, he can take some other opportunity to discuss it.

169J

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Campbell).

I think the hon. member (Mr. Lefurgey) is wandering a little from the question before the chair. He is an old member of the House and knows the importance of carrying on the debate in an orderly way. The item before us is salaries and allowances of lighthouse keepers, and, under that item I think he can hardly discuss the question to which he has been referring.

Mr. LEFURGEY.

Then, how was the discussion allowed to go on for two hours on acetylene gas and patents '? The question I have to bring before the committee is of great Importance to the people of my section-of more importance than the subject that the Postmaster General (Sir William Mulock) and some other gentlemen have been discussing for so long, a discus-, sion with absolutely no point or purpose. Now, I have a point and purpose ixi this,' and it is to show up the mismanagement-

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Campebll).

I must call the hon. member (Mr. Lefurgey) to order. I think I can hardly allow this discussion. I must ask him to keep to the question under consideration.

Mr. HACKETT.

I understand, Mr. Chairman, that you rule my hon. friend (Mr. Lefurgey) out of order. I beg to move that the committee rise.

Mr- FIELDING. There will be no difficulty in finding ample opportunity to discussing the question to which the hon. gentleman (Mr. Lefurgey) has referred. It is an important question, but it does not happen to be related to the subject before the chair. Hon. members on both sides are interested in seeing that we confine ourselves within a reasonable regard for the rules. This is not a party question at all.' We can keep one another here many months if we depart from the rules and allow too wide a range of discussion. I would appeal to my hon. friend (Mr. Hackett) not to insist upon a division upon the question, but to observe the ruling of the chair. Another opportunity will be afforded for discussing the question which has been referred to the importance of which I recognize. '

Mr. LEFURGEY.

I am well on with the discussion of the subject now, and I would like to finish what I have to say 1 do not intend to occupy more than a few minutes, and I would like to finish and get -m ex-' planation from the minister.

The CHAIRMAN Hackett moves that

(Mr. Campbell). Mr. the committee rise.

Mr. FIELDING.

I hope mV hon. friend from Prince will accept the suggestion I offer. The motion is quite in order, of course, but I appeal to the hon. gentleman to assist us in conducting the business of the House and not to ask a division on such

a question as he has raised. The hon. gentleman is an old member of the House and knows that if we do not confine ourselves reasonably to the items before the chair, we shall not be able to have a fair discussion of any question.

Mr. HACKETT.

I am anxious to expedite the business of the House and get through the session. But. I find an effort being made by the Minister of Marine and Fisheries to shut off my hon. friend from East Prince (Mr. Lefurgey) in the discussion of the subject he has brought before the committee. I would ask, in the interest of all concerned, that the hon. member for East Prince be allowed to make his statement. .

The CHAIRMAN (Mr. Campbell).

On the very next item we take up 'Agencies, rents and contingencies ' it would be perfectly in order for my hon. friend to make the remarks that he was addressing to the House; but on this particular item I do not think he can make them.

Mr. SPROULE.

I would suggest to my hon. friend that he withdraw his motion, because we will reach in a little while an item upon which he can make his remarks.

Mr. GAHVREAU.