June 1, 1904

LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Yes. The statement about the flour was correct.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Uriah Wilson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WILSON.

I am sure the minister is wrong when he says the freight on rubber goods would be high. You could hardly find goods that would pack closer and be less expensive.

MrJ FISHER. The figures I have given from this list should be divided by two. These statements are in yen, the Japanese dollar, and not in the Canadian dollar. I did not notice the mark when I read the figures. The price at which the rubber goods sold would be $200, not $400.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. SAM. HUGHES.

When the hon. gentleman speaks of Japan being a splendid field for our furniture, I suppose he includes chairs. Did he educate the people there to sit on chairs ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I did not need to do so. There are in Japan a large number of people, especially in government and other offices, who use chairs. Desks are also in demand,. One

be hware that In the houses of well-to-do Japanese there are quite commonly one or two rooms furnished in European style, partly for convenience of strangers and partly because there are many Japanese who have lived in Europe or America and who, when they return home prefer to live, to a certain extent at any rate, in European style.

Mr. BLA1N. The explanation the minister gave as to the money would apply in the case of furniture. What, then, was the furniture sold for ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Half of what I said. Instead of $658, it was 658 yen, or $329.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Richard Blain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BLAIN.

So this furniture cost $403.07, and was sold at a loss even without allowing anything for freight rates ? Does he then, regard the market for furniture as so very hopeful 7

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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L-C

Andrew B. Ingram

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. INGRAM.

Do I understand that this item covers the exhibition at Winnipeg 7

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

No, that is covered by a special item which we passed some weeks ago.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Rufus Henry Pope

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. POPE.

I understood the minister to say that we were not sending any live stock down to St. Louis. I wonder if that accounts for the items I see in connection with the St. Louis exhibition. Here is an item for Shorthorn bull head, $25, and one for a Hereford bull head, $41.88. Are we sending these bulls' heads in order that the visitors to the St. Louis exhibition may know that we do breed cattle in this country 7 And, if that is the object why should we have selected the bull's head. Why not take down the whole bull, or the more essential parts of the bull. I think it would have been better to send down the whole bull than the bull's head. This bull, I think, would be pretty dear. I do not know what the price of a bull would be on the basis of $41.88 for the head, and why should we pay more for a Hereford bull's head than for a Shorthorn bull's head 7 And what is the prejudice against other breeds 7 If we are to have an exhibit of bulls' heads, why not include the Jersey, the Guernsey, the Holstein and other breeds so that there may be no favouritism 7 The breeder of Shorthorns in this country may feel pleased to know that the bull's head has gone down. But he would be better satisfied if the whole bull had gone.

I am not up in scientiflc agriculture as the hon. gentleman is, but there may be some reason why he bought this head and sent it down there. Now, so far as the other breeds are concerned, I think the discrepancy in the price of this Hereford head will cause trouble, because it is not going to be pleasant to the Durham men or the Shorthorn breeders to know that a greater value is placed upon the Hereford than upon other Mr. FISHER.

breeds. Then there is the Jersey man with no bull there at all, what is he going to do 7 And the Guernsey man, the Galloway man, the Polled-Angus man, the Holstein man- none of these men, with whom these breed! are favourites, will have any bulls representing them, or any bulls' heads representing them at this exhibition. I would call the attention of the Minister of Agriculture to the fact that his department is liable to become unpopular if he selects out a head here and a head there, and leaves all these other important breeds unrepresented-and deadheads, as an hon. friend near me suggests.

I would suggest that the minister take into consideration whether it would not be better to send the whole bull properly equipped down to St. Louis, one that would do full credit to the breed he is supposed to represent. The hon. gentleman might make some arrangement with the government at Washington. If there is any difficulty about [DOT] getting them into that country, he pught to be able to make some special arrangement -perhaps not for the cows or the heifers, but for bulls, a real genuine, complete bull of each of the several breeds. I would suggest that the minister take this into his careful consideration, because I think it is unfair that he should only send the heads of two bulls down there and leave the other breeds unrepresented.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I would just say .to the hon. gentleman that these heads he speaks of were bought for decorative purposes in the agricultural exhibit there.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Rufus Henry Pope

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. POPE.

That may be ; but I do not think it would look proper to practical farmers-we should all try to be practical farmers -that the head of the bull is the essential decoration of the bull. I do not think we should look upon it in that light. I think we should send the animal complete in every respect.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Robert Johnston

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROBERT JOHNSTON.

I understood the minister to say that he had received communications from the Breeders' Association of Canada with regard to sending live stock to the St. Louis exhibition, and that lie now has the subject under consideration.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I explained that a few minutes ago.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Robert Johnston

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROBERT JOHNSTON.

The Breeders' Association hold the best stock in the Dominion, and unless the United States government will allow them to go in there and make a good show, I am afraid that the reputation of Canadian stock will suffer. I do not think it would be wise for a few individual farmers to send in stock that is not of the highest character, as Canadian stock would be belittled in the eyes of foreigners who go there.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Under the arrangement we propose only first-class animals will be likely to go, as it will be only in case they

get good prizes that they will receive assistance.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Robert Johnston

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ROBERT JOHNSTON.

I do not think that we can get a good exhibition of our stock there if individuals have to take cattle at their own expense and run all risk. I fear the best cattle of Canada will not he there.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

John Dowsley Reid

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. J. D. REID.

Could the minister give the total amount that was paid for goods for the Japan exhibition, and the amount leceived for the sale of those goods at that exhibition ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I could not give the total amount paid, because it is involved in a lot of small items which I have not added up yet. The total amount received was in the neighbourhood of $10,000, but the total amount paid was a good deal more than that.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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CON

Joseph Elijah Armstrong

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. ARMSTRONG.

I understood the minister to say that the total amount paid on account of that exhibition was over $60,000, but he has only received $10,000 back. Does the former amount include salaries ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

Yes ; salaries, cost of installation, freight on goods and all preparations for the exhibition. 1 -would point out also that many of these goods were perishable. We had to buy a large amount of fruit, for instance.

Topic:   SUPPLY-MR. D. J. O'DONOGHUE.
Subtopic:   PERSONAL EXPLANATION-MR. WILLIAM ROCHE. '
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June 1, 1904