Mr. T. I. THOMSON.

I think it would be a good thing for the minister to have a statement prepared of the trade with Japan the year before his visit and since. Because I am satisfied, and I am sure the people are satisfied, that we get no returns from these exhibitions. If he can show a satisfactory increase of trade as a result of these exhibitions it will be most gratifying ; but, from the remarks of the hon. gentleman himself there is nothing to warrant this large expenditure of money.

Mr. WILSON.

I make the total of the figures the minister gave us $55,900. Is that right ?

Mr. FISHER.

I have not the total of the four sections I gave. There are additional items in the statement I have before me.

Mr. WILSON.

What other items are there ?

Mr. FISHER.

There is an expenditure of $33,000 for the Canadian pavilion and everything connected with it, and $52,000 for sundry expenditures, management, collection, &c. The total balance is $145,000. That is the estimate of what these exhibits will cost and not merely what has been spent.

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Mr. GANONG.

According to the minister's statement, money has been spent for the purchase of exhibits for Osaka and other exhibitions. But I understand that the two cases of club whisky which have been referred to were not purchased as exhibits.

Mr. FISHER.

1 explained that a few minutes ago.

Mr. GANONG.

1 might justify the minister for purchasing them for exhibition purposes. If they had been furnished for exhibition purposes and not simply purchased in order that the commission might make an exhibition of themselves, that might be justifiable. But I do not believe the people of this country will justify the hon. gentleman in standing up in this House and telling them that he is actually taking their money in order to give some persons a chance to have a drunken spree over on the other side. Does the minister justify that expenditure ?

Mr. FISHER.

No.

Mr. GANONG.

Well, he has confessed one of his many sins to-night. All we ask of him to-day is to state to this House that so far as the future is concerned he will instruct his officers that no such expenditure shall be made. Then we will believe some of the doctrines he has preached in this country in favour of prohibition.

Mr. BENNETT.

The minister made a sweeping statement as to the export of flour to Japan. According to the return ending the 30th of June, 1903, we shipped to Japan 611 barrels of flour, valued at $2,167. Does the minister give us that as a result of the exhibition ?

Mr. FISHER.

What I said a few minutes ago I can only repeat, that since the exhibition closed I am aware that orders have been placed here and the flour has been sent forward, quite a number of carloads. I am not sufficiently familiar with the flour business to know how many barrels are carried in a car.

Mr. POPE.

But you made a statement.

Mr. FISHER.

I made a statement that so many carloads were orered and went forward, and I repeat that statement.

Mr. BENNETT.

The trade and navigation returns show that three or four years ago we were shipping to Japan five times as much flour as we shipped last year. Why, for the year ending the 30th of June, 1901, we shipped 3,000 barrels, as against GOO last year. The minister must think the House and the public are very credulous when he tells us that in consequence of holding this exhibition the sale of flour in Japan has been stimulated. Does not the minister know that the Canadian Pacific Railway Company have had some magnificent ships Mr. FISHER.

trading to that country for years, and does he imagine that the Canadian Pacific Railway Company were carrying these over empty from year to year, and that the enterprising men living in British Columbia were standing idly by and allowing this opportunity to slip of shipping flour to Japan ? It is tommyrot for the hon. gentleman to talk about this exhibition, and tell us that the manufacture of some cheap pies and of pastry over there has stimulated the sale of flour. Everybody remembers the pictures the hon. gentlenuvn had distributed all over tue country showing the natives of Japan crowding up to a free lunch counter that the Dominion of Canada was providing at the great Japanese exhibition. The returns show, no doubt for a number of years back, ever since the installation of the line of boats by the Canadian Pacific Railway Company, that there have been large shipments of flour. I do not know why our trade has lapsed from 3,000 barrels to 600 barrels, but it is plain that before this exhibition was ever heard of, or the minister either, in Japan, we were shipping large quantities of flour to Japan. The minister must give some better proof than he has done of the results of this exhibition.

Mr. FISHER.

I cannot explain the statement the hon. gentleman has made. At the same time, what I have stated is absolutely accurate, that Canadian flour was not known in the Japanese market at all, and we could not find anybody there who had ever seen it or known of it ; and immediately after the exhibition a large number of orders were placed here, and the flour has been going forward.

Mr. BENNETT.

Would the minister say that Canadian flour was unknown there, in face of the government returns ? .

Mr. FISHER.

I will inquire into that.

Mr. T. I. THOMSON.

Could the minister tell me what became of the exhibits that were sent to Japan ? I can find the disposition of the exhibits that were taken to Wolverhampton, but I cannot find anything about the disposition of these exhibits that were taken to Japan.

Mr. FISHER.

I have just had placed in my hands a list showing that there were $400 worth of goods sold at the exhibition in Japan. I have not got the details.