April 25, 1904

SECOND READING.


Bill (No. 68) respecting the Hudson's Bay and Northwest Railway's Company.-Mr. Oliver. -


CHANGE IN PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.

?

Mr. T.@

CHASE CASGRAIN (Montmorency)-by Mr. Sproule-moved :

For copies of all Orders in Council passed under and by virtue of the statute 3 Edward VII., chapter 53, entitled * An Act respecting the management and control of public and other works.'

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CHANGE IN PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.
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?

Rt. H@

I would suggest to my hon. friend (Mr. Sproule) that it might be better not to press this mqtion because my hon. friend from Montmorency (Mr. Casgrain) desires to speak upon it. The Order in Council asked for in the motion has already been brought down.

Motion allowed to stand.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   CHANGE IN PUBLIC WORKS DEPARTMENT.
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MOTIONS AGREED TO WITHOUT DISCUSSION.


For copies of all documents, memorials, petitions, reports and correspondence, in relation to the removal of the post office at Osselceag, or Hampton station, in King's county, N.B., from the railway station to the store of R. H. Smith. -Mr. Fowler. For copies of all letters, telegrams, correspondence, petitions, memorials, documents and papers, relating to the recent appointment of Mr. Boyd to he postmaster at the village of Sir P. W. BORDEN. Huntingdon, in the province of Quebec ; or lating to the filling of the vacancy occasi? , by the death of the late postmaster.-Mr. i [DOT] [DOT] Borden. For a return giving names of all delegates sent by the government from Canada to Gre Britain and Ireland, or any European eoun- y. during the year 1903 ; with the amount paid . each delegate by way of salary and expens * and the nature of the duties performed by ea delegate ; giving districts where those du were performed.-Mr. W. J. Roche. -Mr- For a return showing : , 1. The quantity and value of raw cotton - ported into Canada during each of the Pa", ._g years ; also exports of same, if any, au same term. ^ 2. From what countries it was imported, a the amount in value from each country. ^ 3. The quantity and value of manutac cotton imported into Canada during each o past six years. t 4. From what countries it was imported, the amount in value from .each country. 5. The quantity and value of manufactur ^ cotton exported from Canada during each the past six years. 6. To what countries it was exported.-Wm. Ross (Ont.) For a return of all letters, petitions respondence between D. H. McDowel, M.P., and the government, relating to 'h v ment of rebellion claims and the issue ox _^ breed scrip in the Saskatchewan distric * Davis. ker For a return of all petitions, letters an 0 _ correspondence between the Half-breeds ernkatchewah district and the Dominion cf ment, relating in any way to the grieva lgg3_ the said Half-breeds, for the years the 1884 and 1885. Also correspondence betw an!] Dominion government and their °mc vj0us others in the district of Saskatchewan, P> t0 to the Rebellion of 1885, relating in any the grievances of the said Half-bre [DOT] Davis. . . pe- For copies of all documents, memoria ^jjer titions, letters, reports of engineers. ction correspondence, in relation to the co jjav-of the railway from Southport to M* jgland 1 hour, in the province of Prince E"War wjth said return to include all correspond roUgh regard to the construction of the hu> bridge, in said province.-Mr. Lefurg J- liau0r For a return showing the number sjnc0 permits issued for the Yukon >rern o£ par-the date of the last return ; the name . tft0 ties to whom said permits were i permit ; quantities of liquor covered by eacn n ffllts the names of all parties to whom sa. j per-were assigned (if assigned) by the o & mit-holder.-Mr. Bennett. jim For a return giving details with r'i®a,rfagt and actual cost of construction of the o gdwarn Murray Harbour branches of the r jiurraf Island Railway between Southport * river, as follows :- . mne9 doSa Miles clearing, and cost per m**e ' bb[Dg, an0 cutting, and cost per mile ; miles g cjj exca' cost per mile ; cubic yards of soll<* ,le * ditch' vated, rale per yard, and cost per . cUbi iug, rate per yard, and cost per , c0gt P® yards borrowed, rats per yard, - .je ; farn mile ; public crossings, cost pet' per mlle' crossings, cost per mile ; ballast* j fencing, cost per mile ; rail fastenings, cost per mile ; beam culverts, cost per mile ; length of sidings in feet, and cost of same ; stations, where placed, and cost of each ; miles of tracklaying, and 'cost per mile ; three-foot iron pipes, how many, and cost per mile , eighteen-inch vitrified clay pipes, and cost per mile ; steel trestles, length of same, and cost per mile ; total cost of work to date ; description and size of engine-house and turn-table ; also, capacity of water-tank, and where situated - Mr. Lefurgey. For a return showing :- 1. The total quantity of coal furnished to the government during the fiscal year ending 30th June last, for use in the public buildings, works and institutions, maintained or administered by the government. 2. The quantity of coal furnished during this period for use m each public building, work or institution, stated separately ; and the names of the persons from whom the several lots were obtained ; the rates of payment, and the total cost in each case. 3. The cases where such purchases were made by tender. 4 The sums of money paid during this period, or allowed, bv way of heating or fuel allowance, in lieu of or commutation for fuel ; and in what cases and to what sums respectively, such allowances were made. Mr. Clare. For copies of all petitions, memorials letters and other correspondence, between the Maritime Board of Trade, the Charlottetown Board of Trade, the Alberton and West Prince Board of Trade, and the government, with regard to a subsidy for a line of steamships to ply between Chatham, New Brunswick ; Alberton and New London, on the north shore of Prince Ldward Island ; Sydney, Nova Scotia ; the Magdalen Islands, and St. John's, Newfoundland.-Mr. Hackett. For a copy of the contract between the gov-eminent of Canada and the Manchester liners, in force during the season of 1903. Mr. b. D. Smith-by Mr. Lancaster. For copies of all letters and other correspondence, between the Board of Trade of Alberton, Prince county, Prince Edward Island, and any °ther party or parties, and the government, relative to the importing of a fishing population, the construction of patent driers, and the gen-oral encouragement of the deep-sea fisheries on the north shore of Prince Edward Island. Mr. Hackett. For a return showing : - The post offices, drill halls, armouries, and other public buildings the government has erected or improved, or undertaken to erect or improve, since 1896 ; and showing in each case : (a) the original estimated fotal cost, including beating and lighting, &c.; (b) the actual cost, if completed ; (c) if not yet completed, the present estimated total cost ; (d) the towns, cities °r villages in which the said post offices, drill balls, armouries and other public buildings have been erected ; te) the population of the said cities, towns or villages, respectively. Hr. Clare-by Mr. Lancaster. For a return showing : - , 1. The number of allotments of 240 acres or band made to Half-breeds In Manitoba, and tne total acreage cover 'd by the same. . 2. The number of scrip to Half-breivl children in Manitoba, and the total face value of the same. 3 The number of scrip to heads of Half-breed families in Manitoba, and the total face value of the same. . . . . . . . 4 The total number of scrip to original white settlers in Manitoba, and the total face value of the same. . , . 5 The number of scrip issued in commutation of hay privileges in Manitoba, and the total face value of the same. 6 Scrip and land warrants issued for military services. 7 Scrip issued to the Northwest Mounted Police 8 Scrip issued to colonization companies ; names of companies, and the face value of such SC9.1PA11 other scrip issued by the Department of the Interior ; to whom ; for what purpose ; and respective face value of the same. 10. Number of each cash and land scrip issued to the Northwest Half-breeds. " 11. Number and face value of all the abovedescribed scrip outstanding on the 31st December, 1903.-Mr. LaRiviere. For a return showing list of passes issued, and to whom, on the Canadian government railways and steamers, from January first, 1903, to January, 1904, other than those Issued to senators and members of the parliament of Canada. __Mr. Bell-by Mr. Lancaster. For' copies of Orders in Council, departmental orders, or letters, defining the respective duties of the chief engineer of the Department of Marine and Fisheries, and of the commissioner Of lights-Mr. Northrup-by Mr. Lancaster.


COM PAG NIES DE CREDIT.

LIB

Louis Philippe Demers

Liberal

Mr. L. P. DEMERS (St. John find Iberville).

(Translation.) I move :

That the government take immediate steps to put ail end to unlawful transactions carried on by firms known as ' Compagnies de Credit ' and other such concerns.

Mr. Speaker, I wish to draw the attention of the House to the business done by a number of firms known under the name of ' Compagnies de Credit.' and which have been incorporated by the government of Canada. The avowed object of those companies is to facilitate for their clients the purchase of diamonds, watches, jewels, furs, furniture and other wares, in accordance with a scale of prices and terms laid down by them.

They call themselves ' Compagnies de Credit.' possibly,-as suggested by * Le Frix Count lit.'-for the very reason that tbe.i do not grant credit to any one. As a matter of fact, they are so-called capitalizing institutions. To the person who deposits vuth them two dollars a week for fifteen Meeks. Hint is $30 altogether, they *wct to pay Deposits may be continued for n iterm of 150 weeks, or three consecutive yeai e if desired After having thus deposited 8300 the depositor, under the agreement, will be , ..titled to $750. The same rule applies to a!/subserHlers : there is no drawing of lots . evorv depositor lias the promise that he vul! receive 150 per cent on his investment.

10The business carried on by these firms ,n;iy seem wonderful, and they are avail of

it Here, for instance, is the circular issued by one of these companies called * La Soci6t6 de Credit Hebdomadaire, limitSe,' which guarantees not more than 100 per cent profit. The manager of that company gives the following answer fo question No. 4 :

4th question :-What means have ' La soeiete de Credit Hebdomadaire limitSe,' of paying such large dividends to their subscribers ?

Answer : La Soeiete de Credit Hebdomadaire, limitee," is to small capitalists what railway companies, steamship, street car, insurance companies and banks, etc., etc., are to people of wealth. As a matter of fact, every one of these last named companies spends hundreds of thousands, and even millions, of dollars in expenses each year, and notwithstanding this enormous expenditure, provides for its shareholders a high rate of interest on every share they own. But only people of large means, semi-millionaires, hold stock in such companies while small capitalists are in a position to secure only a low rate of interest on their investments. ' La Socifitg de Credit Hebdomadaire, limitde," incorporated by the Dominion government, and supported by reliable as well as shrewd business men, financiers, in a word, enables all persons of good will, through its various kinds of agreements, to reap large profits on their investments. That company puts large rates of interest within the reach of small capitalists ; but, we repeat it once more, we do not promise fabulous returns ; we secure from investments only what business men can secure from them, as stated on the back of each agreement.

As will be noticed, the manager is very careful not to state through the use of what business methods it is possible to obtain such large returns. That answer given by ' La SociStS de Credit Hebdomadaire, limi-tee,' by that sedate company, made up of reliable and shrewd business men, reminds me of that given by William T. Miller, who won universal notoriety in connection with the Franklin syndicate : 1 The way to wealth is as plain as the road to market/

However, he did not promise such large returns ; he was content with 100 per cent a year, while some of the firms we have to deal with promise 700 per cent a year. That same Miller stated elsewhere :

This may look impossible to you, but you know there must be a way where one can double their money in a short time, or else there would be no Jay Gould, Vanderbilt, or Flower Syndicate and other millionaires.

That was the only explanation offered ; that is to say, uo explanation was given. The effects of these schemes are being felt just now in Montreal and vicinity. Workingmen and others who have taken an interest in these concerns and deposited with them part of their earnings are facing a sure loss. Some of them deposit as much as twenty or even twenty-five dollars a week. If, as I believe, the companies are being operated on a wrong principle, it will mean ruin for a number of these poor people of Montreal and other districts of the province.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   COM PAG NIES DE CREDIT.
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LIB

Louis Philippe Demers

Liberal

Mr. L. P. DEMERS.

I think the government should cancel their letters patent. Possibly, the Minister of Justice, after studying their legal status, may reach the conclusion that criminal proceedings should be instituted foy conspiracy and fraud. There is no doubt the promoters know that they will be unable to pay what they promise. They are aware that it is a fake. So that a charge for conspiracy with a view to swindling the people, would be in order. 1 shall not undertake to point out to the Minister of Justice what proceedings should be taken; I am satisfied he will readily find some way of remedying this evil. All I wish is that the imposition practised on the people by these companies be promptly put an end to.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   COM PAG NIES DE CREDIT.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER (Prime Minister) (Translation).

Before my hon. friend resumes his seat, will he say whether he is in a position to suggest the means which the government might adopt.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   COM PAG NIES DE CREDIT.
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LIB

Louis Philippe Demers

Liberal

Mr. L. P. DEMERS.

(Translation.) I think an efficient means would be a writ of ' scire facias ' for the purpose of cancelling the letters patent granted to these companies. They are content with taking in the people's money, and the government would be warranted in taking out a ' scire facias,' in case they do not deem it advisable to institute a criminal action. At all events, in my humble opinion, there are grounds for government interference.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   COM PAG NIES DE CREDIT.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER. (Translation).

Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt that the companies to which the hon. member has just drawn the attention of the House are simply cases of organized fraud. It seems evident that they are not fulfilling the purpose for which they were incorporated. They are openly infringing on their charters. Their existence is sanctioned by law; but their transactions are unlawful. Instead of carrying out the object for which they were incorporated, they are deliberately going against it. And 1 agree with my hon. friend that there are only two classes of people in these concerns, those who rob, and those who are robbed, as stated in the newspaper article which he has just read. The difficulty is to find a remedy to this evil. My hon. friend suggests that the government should at once take steps to cancel the charters of these companies by means of a writ of ' scire facias.' That means is available to any subject of the king.

At all events, the attention of the government having been drawn to that point, I shall request the hon. Minister of Justice to take it up at once with a view to putting a stop to such an unfortunate state of affairs. And as my hon. friend has thereby, I think, attained his object, I shall ask him to withdraw his motion.

Motion withdrawn.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   COM PAG NIES DE CREDIT.
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LIB

RAILWAY ACT AMENDMENT BIEL.


On the Order being called for : Resuming adjourned debate on the prop°s^ motion of Mr. Fitzpatrick, that Bill (No. -1, -Act to amend the Railway Act, he referret.* the Select Standing Committee on Rail"' [DOT] ' Canals and Telegraph Lines.


LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER (The Minister).

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   RAILWAY ACT AMENDMENT BIEL.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   RAILWAY ACT AMENDMENT BIEL.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   RAILWAY ACT AMENDMENT BIEL.
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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

No, with understanding that ultimately the Bill " go to the Committee of the Whole.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   RAILWAY ACT AMENDMENT BIEL.
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April 25, 1904