April 25, 1904

CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

gentleman is guilty of having introduced into the service for the first time the defence of a man holding a high position and drawing a large salary, on the plea that he was a good officer, and that what he had said was true. The present Commissioner of Customs (Mr McDougal), could just as consistently go out on the stump to-morrow and advocate the principles of the Liberal party, if they had any, and he would be no more censurable than Mr. Bain. But the hon. gentleman has shown to the country that the service is permeated with corruption. I do not know of a more corrupt thing than to take the people's money and prostitute the service as the hon. gentleman has prostituted it. He did not do it unwittingly, and he unblushingly defends it now. We have never witnessed a spectacle like this since we have been privileged to have a parliament in Canada, and I hope we will never witness . it again. What is the paltry, miserable excuse that the hon. gentleman gives ? It is that this gentleman has done good service. A collector of customs who is a good officer might as well go on the stump and say what he likes, or write campaign literature and then come back and render the excuse which the hon. gentleman has given by saying that he was a good officer. That has nothing to do with it. The hon. minister has not done himself justice and he certainly has not done his department justice. The hon. gentleman did elevate himself somewhat the other evening when he refused to get up and make a point blank denial of what he knew to be a fact. The hon. gentleman chose on that occasion to be silent. But, the hon. gentleman has not improved with the lapse or time. He comes back with the defence that the officer is a good one, and the literature he prepared is true. We might just as well take one of the hon. gentleman's officers tomorrow and allow him to go out on the stump, telling the people that the hon. Minister of Customs in the House of Commons had defended that course of conduct, that lie was perfectly at liberty to pursue that course and that the minister would justify him. There is no single officer in his department who could not to-morrow' go on stump after what the hon. gentleman has said, discuss politics and take any active part in politics he chose. He could say . Have I not done my part well in my department ? Is all I have said and written perfectly true 1 Is that not a perfect lustih-cation ? I would like the hon. gentleman just to see how it would appear in his eyes if any hon. gentleman on this side or the House should take the position he has taken to-night. No one would more readily ie-buke a course of conduct like that than the hon. gentleman himself. I want to say that the hon. Minister of Customs has laid down the most vicious rule that was everlaiddown in this House. He has told the people plainly that you may spend public money for any purpose you like, that you may employ

political hacks, and employ them with the public money, although, I say that the man who has been writing this literature is not the hack. If you were to ask who the hack was I would be forced to name the hon. o-ent'leman who defends this conduct in this House to-night. I do not believe that in the whole history of the parliament of Canada, a minister has ever made such an exhibition as that which the hon. gentleman has made here to-night. I do not know one who has ever laid down so vicious a principle. I do not know one who has ever so unblushingly defended it.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

vatives the assistance of these interests consisted chiefly in advances for the purchase of butter for export, end for winter dairying, and in providing for the administrative staff, the members of which went about the country lecturing. The present Minister of Agriculture-practical farmer as he is

Is that statement correct ? Is it correct to say that the Minister of Agriculture is a practical farmer ? Why, there is not a farmer in the country who will not say that that statement is untrue.

The present Minister of Agriculture-practical farmer as he is-has gone farther than his predecessors, and has instituted many new and improved methods to aid the agricultural community. For instance he established a live stock branch, with a capable commissioner to promote live stock interests' of the country. A poultry division was provided to spread education as to the best methods of fattening and preparing poultry for export.

Did the Minister of Customs authorize the Assistant Commissioner of Customs to write such trash as that ? The Minister of Customs has admitted that the assistant commissioner prepared ' Political Pointers No. 1,' but he says it was before he was assistant commissioner. However, here is ' Political Pointers No. 3,' written by the same man, 20 cases of which have been brought to the House of Commons to-day to be franked through the mails. The opposition were abused last year for sending out a little literature through- the mails, but here we have Liberal political pointers franked through the mails in car loads, and prepared by a civil servant who is drawing $2,800 a year of the people's money, to get this trash printed and published in order to try to delude the farmers of this country. This civil servant shows by his figures that the farmers of this country are paying $19,000,000 a year more in revenue than they were paying in 1895, and yet he has the cheek to try to make out that the farmers are not paying any more taxes now than they were then.

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LIB

James Sutherland (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Hon. JAS. SUTHERLAND (Minister of Public Works).

I did not intend to take part in this debate, but I think every member in this House must have a feeling in his breast, that he should be fair and honest to his fellow being. It is only fair to say that Mr. Bain is in no way responsible, and has not had anything to do with the items which the hon. gentleman (Mr. Taylor) has been reading. It is a very unfair, and a very improper charge to make against Mr. Bain.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

I stated that if I am granted a commission, I will endeavour to prove it.

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LIB

James Sutherland (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. JAS. SUTHERLAND.

The hon. gentleman can have all the commissions he wants, but he cannot prove It. I state here on my responsibility as a member of this House, that Mr. Bain is not responsible for writing the sentences that the hon. member Mr. TAYLOR.

(Mr. Taylor) has read. The Minister of Customs has stated that Mr. Bain did furnish him with certain statistics, just the same as other deputy ministers or officials in various other departments furnish departmental statistics to Conservatives ana Liberals alike.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

The Minister of Customs did not deny it.

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LIB

James Sutherland (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. JAS. SUTHERLAND.

I am not speaking for the Minister of Customs, I am speaking for myself.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

The Minister of Customs should know better than the hon. gejitleinai (Mr. Sutherland).

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LIB

James Sutherland (Minister of Public Works)

Liberal

Mr. JAS. SUTHERLAND.

That may be your way of debating, but it is not mine. r have made the statement on my responsibility as a minister, and I say that Mr. Bam had nothing to do .with the publication oi that pamphlet. I appeal to my hon. friena, as I do to other members of the House to D fair and honest ; let them blame a man i he should be blamed, but let them give creel where credit is due. It is unfair and im proper for a member of this House to aceus, a man improperly, either by direct charge o by insinuation. I rose for the purpose making the statement that Mr. Bain is in n way responsible ; that he did not write tn literature that the hon gentleman has be quoting, and that he is not responsible r it in any way.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

Then we have one minister contradicting the other ?

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS

No.

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LIB
CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

I understood the Minister of Customs to say that before Mr. Bain _ appointed assistant commissioner he 1 pared ' Political Pointers No. 1,' whici Minister of Customs read from.

Some hQn. MEMBERS. No.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

The Minister of CustoffJ read many passages from that, to try f make out they were correct. The M ' ,

of Customs admitted that the assistan

missioner wrote ' Political Pointers No. 1,' but be said it was before Mr. Bain was assistant commissioner ; and I say that 1 Political Pointers No. 3 ' was prepared by the same gentleman since he was appointed assistant commissioner.

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?

Some hon. MEMBERS

No.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

The Minister of Customs will not get up and deny it himself, because he has the reputation of telling the truth, although he may equivocate a little and get around the corners, but when it comes down to the straight point, he will not deny it. If he gives me a commission of three honest men, I will prove that Mr. Bain prepared that document.

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LIB

William Paterson (Minister of Customs)

Liberal

Mr. PATERSON.

My statement was, that When I asked Mr. Bain : is there any of your work in that ; he said : there are figures in that which I prepared for your use, and Which you have used ; it was my duty, as your private secrtary, to prepare them for you and what I did prepare for you has found a place in these political pointers. I never said that Mr. Bain said that he was the publisher or the author of these political Pointers.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

You did hot say that; but after quoting the tables, you read a lot of statements and said they were correct information to go to the people of this country ; and that document was prepared by this gentleman before he was appointed assistant commissioner.

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LIB
CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

I want a word with the hon. Minister of Public Works, who contradicts the Minister of Customs.

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April 25, 1904