April 21, 1904

CON
LIB

Peter Macdonald (Deputy Speaker and Chair of Committees of the Whole of the House of Commons)

Liberal

Mr. DEPUTY SPEAKER.

to a

member is in perfect order in r, t1fe Uop' point of order ; but I do not think -el. jn member (Mr. Lefurgey) is out or 11(jing-speaking from where he is now *

lat?

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CON

Alfred Alexander Lefurgey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. LEFURGEY. (reading).

to be. You take the price of rails, the price of ties, the price, of labour ; it is not a mathematical problem at all what the cost will be. It may be varied by deflections one way or another, but you can tell within a very close amount what it is going to be. Then, in addition to the advantages of grade, location and so on, the line will be shortest one between the east-China and Japan and all of that country to which we must look for our future development-the road is 1,500 miles shorter from Montreal to Yokohama than via New York and San Francisco. It is 500 miles shorter than the Canadian Pacific route to Victoria. We will have taken a passenger half-away across the territory, before he could be far on his way by other routes. In all these great auestions arising to-day in connection with Russia, Japan and all that territory, the importance of the shortest route must be apparent to you. There are many of you here to-day who will live to see the Grand Trunk Pacific hauling as much of its grain towards the Pacific for consumption in China, Japan and that territory as will be hauled in this eastern direction. The route will give the Grand Trunk Railway control of the rapidly growing business of the Yukon territory. That traffic all goes down now either bv Vancouver, Seattle or the southern coast towns, and there is takes steamer some 2,000 miles. We shall have shortened that distance by rail in that neighbourhood by 1,000 miles. One shareholder a minute ago, in speaking of the obligation the Grand Trunk was to assume in this conection, seemed to have the impression that his interests, whatever they may be in whatever class of securities, were jeopardized from the outset, and I fear that there is a general impression arising entirely from this misunderstanding. The .Grand Trunk Railway is not going to be called upon under its guarantees for one cent for eight years after this enterprise is started-after the construction of the line is commenced-the cost of the line during construction being added to capital and provided out of capital, and the securities which the Grand Trunk will guarantee will not be issued for eight years, and then after that eight years have rolled by, you have seven years yet on the mountain section, a part on which there seems to be some doubt. There can be not the slightest doubt as to what the returns will be from the prairie section, but on the mountain section you have seven years without any claim at all, three years after that only a claim on what is earned, making, therefore, before the mountain section becomes anything of a burden on the railway, eighteen years. All I have to do is to to ask you to look back at meetings and discussions which took place of a similar character in connection with the Canadian Pacific, where it was freely prophecied by gentlemen who were doubters, as we have doubters here to-day, that it would not earn the axle grease. (Laughter.) The gentlemen who were fortunate enough to buy the securities from those who held that impression have profited. We are going into the territory which was originally selected as the route of the Canadian Pacific. The surveys were made by the Canadian government who spent $3,000,000 in determining and selecting what was^ the most easy and direct route for a transcontinental line. This route was selected, hut a change of government took place just about the time the report was made, and the idea was abandoned. A lower route was taken through a less desirable country than that which we are now taking, so that we are simply Mr. LEFURGEY.

confirming the judgment of fifteen or t''e te>

years ago as to the desirableness of the 1 '

and the character of the country we are s through. To my mind it is difficult to_ c0_\Uorne

it is ainicuit. ,ienie

that there can be any objection to this s ^ which promises so much to the Grand Railway, and which links its fortunes with of the government of Canada in a way t*1 heIie-two must work together, not only for the uj. fit of the. country at large, but for t?eTrunlc benefit of the country and the Grand t0 Railroad. Gentlemen, I shall be very S pave answer any other auestion, but I think n0t

covered the whole ground. The question opt

what is going to happen to you if yoo' ;f this enterprise, but what is going to hgP 1 you do not adopt it. (Loud applause.) jyjr, A shareholder-I should like to *

Hays if he will tell us something ahou climate of Port Simpson. tjje

Mr. Hays-The gentleman asks about { climate along the proposed line and ai Simpson. You will all understand _ tna jy question of climate and its severity is yhicii one of elevation. The country through ' r(jg we are going commences to slope down to Hudson Bay-the trend is all towards all Hudson Bay. The waters of that p5>rtl uth-drain to the north instead of to the y0n, Our line is on a very much lower ele r-Ig0-and therefore there is a very much less rous climate than that followed by tn not only south of us in Canada, but qqq, United States, which reach elevations o' ' 0f 6,000 and 8,000 feet. In the neighbourly' ^ Edmonton where some of our officers we gn0W-. winter, there were only six inches ot snoV/ They rarely have six or eight inches o n0t through all their territory. They "7. njpeg begun to have the snow west of " g in

this year that we have had on our n ^ye Ontario where the storm centre seems ginlp-been located principally. As to Port meson, there are several ports in

BUIi, L11CIC ClIC OC\cidI '*'J *" fnF l-11

diate vicinity which may be adopted fflent final terminal of the road. In the as ff0Uid we speak of Port Simpson, but that eJ,a0t cover a radius of fifty miles, but location of the terminal would he dot jjaf-by anchorage facilities and advantages rareiy bourage. The climate at Port SimPso ,.g It exceeds a mean temperature of 50 to peis on a degree of latitude about mia tween that of London and Glasgow. ^

A shareholder-Is it an open port .

Mr. Hays-Yes. ish to

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Mr. A@

17S0

of ' All.') Those of the contrary opinion. The resolution is carried. (Loud applause.)

The retiring directors and auditors having been re-elected, the proceedings terminated with a vote of thanks to the president and directors.

Mr. Chairman, I am pleased with the attention the hon. leader of the House, the Finance Minister, the Minister of Justice and the hon. member for London (Mr. Hyman) and the other members of the government have paid to this very important document. I can only say that I hope they will read it over again very carefully, with more leisure to consider the different clauses than they have had to-night, I think they will profit by the reading.

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I think we ought to say that the hon. gentleman (Mr. Lefurgey) has contributed the most interesting statement that has come from that side of the House on this subject.

Resolution reported, read the second time and agreed to.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

I suppose the House will rise now.

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

We will just introduce the Bill and take the first reading.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

We should only proceed one stage to-day.-

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

That is all-the introduction of the Bill usually follows the resolution.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

Introduce the Bill to-morrow. When it is introduced it will probably provoke discussion.

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

Not on the introduction.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

It may. There are one or two hon. gentlemen 'who are absent now but who had purposed saying something before the resolution passed.

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LIB

Louis-Philippe Brodeur (Minister of Inland Revenue)

Liberal

Mr. BRODEUR.

On the second reading of the Bill full discussion can take place. The usual course is, after the resolution is reported the Bill is introduced.

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

But not proceeded with.

Mr. FITZPATRICK moved for leave to introduce Bill (No. 72) to amend the National Transcontinental Railway Act.

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Motion agreed to, and Bill read the first time.


CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR :

Is the Bill printed 7 Is it to be proceeded with to-morrow 7

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LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Mr. FIELDING.

I understand that it is printed and will be distributed to-night; and, if there is no objection, it will be proceeded with to-morrow. The Bill is a very small one, and is no substantial addition to what is already before the House.

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CON

ADJOURNMENT -BUSINESS OF xHB HOUSE.


Mr. FIELDING moved the adjournmen of the House. . t-js


April 21, 1904