April 19, 1904

CON
?

Mr. A. E.@

14T6

approach of elections in years gone bj-. [DOT] What are these signs ? One is that before the election comes about the Toronto ' Globe ' sends for the cartoonist that it lias employed in years gone by. The management of that organ give the cartoonist instructions in regard to what they want him to do. They wanted him to get away from his old ideas, to put aside his free trade cartoons, his extravagant expenditure cartoons, his blue ruin cartoons and his unrestricted reciprocity cartoons. Something new was required and they have invented something new in the shape of the [DOT] Finger-posts of prosperity. ' That was a sure sign that the election was coming on. These [DOT] finger-posts of prosperity ' appeared in almost every issue of the ' Globe ' until the government decided to call parliament to meet to deal with these concessions. The cartoons published in the ' Globe' were considered to be so good that the Liberal press throughout the country copied them and they even found their way in a somewhat modified form into a certain section of the independent press of this country. The government had had new demands made upon them after they had prepared for the election. They had either to call off the election or call the bargain off. They were between two alternatives ; they either had to go to the country or call parliament together to consider these concessions. I contend that the government did right in calling parliament together, but I contend they did wrong in accepting any of these concessions that are embodied in this legislation. The government bad made a bargain with a corporation which they thought to be a good bargain. They expected that corporation to carry it out. When this government negotiates a treaty with the United States the Senate of the United States can throw it out. The government have placed themselves in the same position in regard to this contract that this or any other eoun-try places Itself: in when negotiating a treaty with the United States. The country was bound bard and fast but we find the Grand Trunk Railway Company were not bound. Ministers in this House who talked about safeguarding the rights of the country were told to swallow what they had said and make a right about turn. We know what the words of the Finance Minister were in regard to this proposition, how the Grand Trunk were in this contract, and of it, and the whole of it, and we know what else he said and what other members of the government said. There was a panic on December 19 in the government; there is no doubt about that and there must hgve been some tremendous sighs when the government first found out that the Grand Trunk Railway were not going to carry out their contract. That subsided oil .Tanuary 16th when this House was called.

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
CON

Albert Edward Kemp

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. KEMP.

when I had the pleasure of appearing before the Railway Committee last year.

In any ease, if it is not the law of the country that these gentlemen have free transportation over the railways, I shall he glad to suggest to Mr. Hays that they should get a free pass to attend this session over the Grand! Trunk on the slow trains.

I think. Sir, that as an apology was

Now, Sir, it seems to me that there is too much made of the idea, that it is difficult to get the Grand Trunk Railway Company or the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company to build this transcontinental line. As a matter of fact, is it not the case that the Grand Trunk were very anxious to build this line ? Do not the statements made by the directors to their shareholders in London, prove that the Grand Trunk Company is eager to build this railway. Let me quote from their remarks.

Mr. Girdlestone said :

If- you do reject it somebody else will undoubtedly get that line, and you will have been forced out of the territory, and for that reason alone I think the board are wise in putting before us the policy they do to-day.

Lord Welby said :

If you say ' No,' there is very little doubt that there are many others ready to avail themselves of the opportunity, and we have every reason to believe that the government of Canada has entirely decided that it will carry out this new line, and, if you refuse to do it, then other parties, without any doubt, are ready to come forward and take up the development which is offered, and the opportunity will pass away from you. (Hear, hear.)

Sir Charles Rivers-Wilson said :

Parliament meeting the day after to-morrow, the agreements will not be ratified, and those advantages, which *; sincerely believe will likely accrue to our company, pass into other hands.

It would appear to me that from the moment the Grand Trunk Company discovered that the government were too hasty in regard to the construction of this line ; from that moment it was impossible to make fair terms with them in the interests of the people of Canada. If this government had been a little more crafty, or a little more deliberate, and if such language as was used in the House last year by the Prime Minister, when he referred to us as drifting on to the shoals, when he told us that time would not wait; if such language Lad not been used by the Prime Minister and his ministers and supporters, we would have had a far better chance of making a fair bargain with the Grand Trunk Company. The president of the Grand Trunk Railway informed his shareholders that It had been the intention of the company at

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
CON
CON
?

Mr. J AMES J. HUGHES@King's, P. E. I.

Mr. Speaker, I had not the privilege of hearing the earlier speeches delivered on the resolution now before the House. But I have looked carefully over some of those speeches, particularly the one delivered by the leader of the opposition and the one delivered by the hon. member for West Toronto (Mr. Osier), and as a young member of this House l must say that I was surprised to find that the leader of the opposition, in treating the financial side of this question, was so very unfair and misleading in the statements he made, and that the hon. member for West Toronto was absolutely incorrect in tbe statements that he made. I admit, Mr. Speaker, that this is rather strong language, but I hope to prove it before I sit down. Before attempting to do so, however, I wish to refer briefly to section 42 of tbe agreement, a section which is very interesting to us in the maritime provinces. During the recess it has been discussed at considerable length in the newspapers of Prince Edward Island from which I have the honour to come, and also at public meetings that have been held in the by-election in West Queen's. Our Conservative opponents stated very emphatically that this section was not strong enough, or broad enough, or comprehensive enough to compel the Grand Trunk Pacific to carry the freight and traffic tha I; it will gather up in the west and in the middle west and bring it down through Canadian channels to Canadian ocean ports, ano that consequently the government should condemned for not being able to make a neater bargain and one more in the mte - [DOT] the maritime provinces. __

aartrrAns,

Pacific Bill was before parliament last session tbe opposition held a caucus and tin united wisdom and legal ability of tm opposition prepared a resolution, which, in their opinion would exactly meet the ie-Srements of the case. The resolution was

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
LIB

James Joseph Hughes

Liberal

Mr. J. J. HUGHES.

areas ol' valuable timber and mineral lauds opening up for cultivation millions and tens of millions of acres of the most valuable agricultural lands in the world. What will $20,000,000 be to the people of this country ? Our population is now about 0,000,000, but long before we are called upon to meet this obligation, our population will be 7.000.000 or 8,000,000, that $20,000,000 _ divided

amongst our population will be less than $." per head of the population, or $15 for every family of live persons. In view of this, how can the member for Grey (Mr. Sproule) and the hon. member for Leeds (Mr. Taylor), and the hon. member for South Lanark (Mr. Ilaggart) ; how can intelligent men like these stand up in this House and say that this enterprise will put a mortgage of $125 on every man's farm ?

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
LIB
LIB

James Joseph Hughes

Liberal

Mr. JAMES J. HUGHES.

Well, Sir, even if we had to meet all this obligation in one year, it would not be a very considerable matter after all ; it would be very little more than the surplus of last year, and I>ossibly not more than the surplus of the present year. But, Sir, we will not have to meet it in one year. The payment will be extended over a period of fifteen years. It will take seven or eight years for the government to construct the railway, and we will be paying the interest for seven years more, so that it will be spread over a period of fifteen years, and hence it will amount to about one dollar per year for each family in the Dominion of Canada during fifteen years.

But, Sir, this enterprise will not cost the people of Canada one single dollar, because I hold-and I believe I can maintain it successfully-that the increased business that we shall do. the profit we will make on our increased business because of the construction of this railway, will pay for the railway four or five times over. I need not refer to the augmented value that will be given to the lands through which this railway will pass. No matter whether these lands belong to the provinces or to the Dominion government, they will be increased in value so that if these lands be sold for what they will bring, the increased value will go into the exchequers of the provinces or into the Dominion exchequer. They will benefit by ten-fold what the road will cost. Therefore, so far from this National Transcontinental Railway being a drain on the resources of the country, it will on the contrary be a source of profit and revenue. .

At six o'clock, House took recess.

After Recess.

House resumed at eight o'clock.

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
?

Mr. .TAMES J. HUGHES@

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

What about the guarantee for the prairie section ?

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
LIB

James Joseph Hughes

Liberal

Mr. JAMES J. HUGHES.

tliis opposition. They would chain the Canadian people to the car wheels of the Canadian Pacific Railway, if they could. Now, Sir, the hon. member for West Hastings- I think it was he-threw out a challenge to this side of the House. He challenged the government to go to the country on this issue. Sir. that was an idle and a boastful challenge. The hon. gentleman knows well that we shall go to the country upon this issue. He knows that this will be the leading subject of discussion before the people. He knows well that the record of the government in every particular cannot be successfully assailed, and he knows also that we are quite prepared to meet our opposition friends upon this issue. We are confident of the verdict. We know what the verdict of this generation will be : we feel confident what the verdict of the next generation will be ; and we believe that the population of cities yet unbuilt will do honour to the memory of the men who had the ability to conceive and the courage to carry through this great undertaking-an undertaking, Sir, that will go far to make of Canada a nation among the nations of the earth. I have therefore no hesitation in saying that I shall vote for the resolution and against the amendment now before the House.

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
CON

Alfred Alexander Lefurgey

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. A. A. LEFURGEY (East Prince, P.E.I.).

Canada. But instead of that ; under this scheme of the government, the grain of the west will be transferred over the Northern Pacific, passing out by way of Winnipeg across the International boundary at Emerson, and connecting with the Chicago and Grand Trunk. The earnings of the road will go to the people of the United States; the dividends will go to maintain United States railway corporations, and the Canadian people will be the sufferers. These are the views of the government's own man ; these are the views of the ex-Minister of Railways, and judging from the high position in which the government has placed Mr. Blair, we must consider that he is their own man. They are also, Sir, the views of the leader of the opposition and his supporters in this House. Nor, cio the Conservatives, and Mr. Blair stand alone in this matter of government ownership. For years both in the United States and in England, they have been trying to get some control over these immense railway corporations. I quote from the Statesman's Tear-book, 1898, these statistics regarding railways.

Country.

Argentine Republic, 8,998 miles,

not distinguished

Alsace-Lorame

Austria-Hungary

Baden, Germany

Bavaria

Belgium ,

Brazil, State, Union, subvention..

Brunswick

Bulgaria

Cape of Good Hope

Ceylon

Chili

Columbia

Denmark

Dutch East Indies '.

Ecuador (declined private construction of projected line)

Egypt

England (public ownership agitated)

Finland

France (private railroads revert to

State)

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
?

German Empire ....

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
CON
LIB
?

Mr LEFURGEY.

Total.

142,

118,

96,

385,

409,

198,

244,

127,

6,

88,

155,

490,

096,

348,

381,

788,

603.

736,

852,

098.

121.

300

397

699

,724

,050

,055

,545

FINANCE. T" - [DOT]

The MINISTER OF t cn*.p

nothing to prevent them, but they m[DOT] * port

no higher rate for traffic to Canad rts. than they charge for traffic to American r tejiig Mr. BORDEN (Halifax). And Portia? so much nearer than St. John or Hall r would ibeessarily carry it to Portland.

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Trying to evade the issue

v.eI*

-They might carry it to Portland it; t'Jcootr^. perfectly free ; but under the prese to they are obliged to give the same

,rSe

John or Halifax as to Portland. give

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE. .

[DOT]hat

. -co,, . - will compel llils grain

'll'.'bln , to our Atlantic ports 7 Tlilrd-'Lin] 1 1 uiiieni Iuih acted hastily and lustily ip throwing a scheme

b)

like this into parliament as they did last year without due deliberation, without that deliberation which any body of men would give to a private undertaking that did my: involve anything near as great a sum or ou wiliek so much depended as this. They acted ill-advisedly in that they did not heed the advice of the ex-Minister of Railways, but on the contrary excluded him from their council when they met in solemn conclave on this question, concealing from the people and from the other members of this House his opinion in favour of government ownership. Fourthly, they have secured no control of rates, no reciprocal trade facilities by this agreement. Fifthly, they are encouraging gambling in public utilities, by allowing the greater part of this $25,000,000 of stock to be held and sold to the public while it represents no real value in the road. Sixthly, the liability undertaken will practically build the whole road, while the profitable parts of it become the property of a private corporation. Seventhly, it expends unprofitable the resources of the country, to the detriment of our natural shipping transportation routes and waterways. Eig+hly, and the most dangerous feature of all, it throttles the will of the people by postponing government ownership for one hundred years.

Now, Mr. Speaker, I have spoken on this question from a sense of duty. I believe that 1 have been sent up here to represent the best interests of the people of Canada, mid I realize that I shall have to go back to my own constituents and give an account of my stewardship in this House. I believe that in getting up on this occasion and in advocating, as I have done, government ownership of railways, and in asking the government to reconsider this scheme, 1 am simply doing what the people who have placed their confidence in me expect me te do. I say of this scheme, as I said of it last year, that this government cannot place their finger upon one great work that they have attemped or put into operation since they came into power. They an now endeavouring to erect a political tombstone for themselves, and T believe they will succeed in doing it.

Topic:   RAILWAY CONNECTION AT BROCK-YILLE.
Permalink

April 19, 1904