April 5, 1904

NEW MEMBER.

LIB

Lawrence Geoffrey Power (Speaker of the Senate)

Liberal

Mr. SPEAKER.

I have the honour to inform the House that the Clerk of the House has received from the Clerk of the Crown in Chancery, a certificate of the election and return of John H. Sinclair, Esq., for the electoral district of Guysboro', province of Nova Scotia.

Topic:   NEW MEMBER.
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GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.


The Right Hon. Sir WILFRID LAURIER (Prime Minister), moved that the House go into Committee to consider the following- proposed resolution : That it is expedient to ratify the agreement between His Majesty the King and the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway Company, dated the eighth day of March, 1904, transmitted by His Excellency the Governor General to this House by his message of March the eleventh ; and which varies in some respects the provisions of the agreement between His Majesty and Sir Charles Rivers Wilson and others, representing the said company ; a copy of which forms the schedule to the Act 3 Edward VII., chapter 71 ; and to authorize the government to do whatever is necessary to give full effect to the first mentioned agreement. Ho said: Mr. Speaker, the transportation question is undoubtedly the most important of all those Which have engaged and still continue to engage the attention of parliament and the attention of the Canadian people as well. It is a question at once complex and involved, complex and involved in this, that there are several works of a national character which have to be undertaken and carried out in the course of time, but which cannot be all undertaken at this moment. There is the construction of a second transcontinental railway from tidal water to tidal water, anil which more immediately calls for the deliberation of parliament; there is the improvement and development of the waterways from the great lakes to the Atlantic sea-board ; there is the improvement and development of overland communication between the great lakes and the Atlantic sea-board, either by the construction of new lines or by perfecting lines now existing ; there is also the connection of tile great western centres of population with the waters of the Yukon Territory. All these projects deserve attention, they are all meritorious and they have all to be attended to. The question is therefore, where so much is to be done, where we should commence. Tills was the problem which faced the government and wbicn



faced parliament last year ; and haying given the matter the best consideration we could give it, we do not think that we mistook public opinion nor failed in the proper appreciation of the events and circumstances which have taken place, in having concluded that the first of all those works which requires to be attended to is the construction of a second transcontinental railway. There are for this conclusion, I say, paramount reasons-reasons at once political and commercial. The population of Canada today is probably six million of souls-perhaps a little over six million. Certainly not less than five-sixths of this number of people and more are centred east of Lake Superior. Though the western section is vastly inferior in number to the eastern section, it is a matter of public knowledge, of public notoriety, that the west is increasing with far greater rapidity than the eastern section, and the day is not far distant, indeed I think we can almost see the dawn of the day which will see the western population equal to and perhaps exceeding the population of the eastern section. Between these two sections of population, however, there is a gap of several hundred miles of uninhabited and hardly habitable land. This gap constitutes an interruption of communication that has to be made up and supplemented by the hand of man. This has been done to some extent already by the construction of the Canadian Pacific Railway-to some extent only, not completely. If we reflect that railway communication has become a primary necessity of civilized life, if we remember the growing importance which railway communication occupies in all the relations of civilized life, no further argument is required to show that a single line of railway between these two groups of the Canadian people is absolutely inadequate and insufficient. Then, when we remember that the western group of our population is geographically connected with another group of population largely akin in language and origin, but alien in allegiance, from which it is separated by no natural obstacles, and with which communication is established by means of several railways running north and south, the necessity is all the more apparent, not certainly that we are in doubt as to the allegiance of these people in the west, not certainly that we believe they can be seduced from their present allegiance in any manner whatever, but it becomes the duty of the Canadian people, and it certainly is the part of statesmanship, to provide, and that immediately, all sections of the Canadian people with proper facilities of communication, at least equal to those which exist amongst our neighbours to the south of us. Then, when we reflect further that the population of the west is largely composed of foreign elements which have to be assimilated, we will no doubt agree that the Sir WILFRID LAURIE®. best instrument of assimilation is the rat way-the railway which annihilates distanc > which makes neighbours of men who. P1 vious to its era," would have remained 11 known to each other, and would perhai ^ not even have suspected the existence . one another. . „ Strong as is the aspect of the quest1 ,g from the political point of view, stronger it from the commercial point of view. t western population of Canada are larg^ growers of cereals, chiefly wheat. They c't send tlieir products to market at this m°®® t only by rail, then by water, and then eita by rail or water. To-day, as soon as the c has been threshed in the month of Not® ber and up to the month of December, wi navigation is closed, the products of j people of the west have to be sent by 1 ,e to the end of Lake Superior. Then they 'ey sent over Lake Superior, and when v';e reach the other end of the lake, they ' r sent to their destination either by ra* ^ water. What is the consequence of s present condition of things ? What hapP j,. to-day ? As soon as the crop has been tbl® ( ed during the months of September, 0_ct and November, and whilst navigat301 open, the existing railways have to supreme effort in order to collect re' t,.y stock in the western section of the c°^gji7l« so as to be able to take as much as P°®j0r. of the crop to the shore of Lake Sup They have to starve all the other s®ctjjefe of Canada. Trade is disorganized, and ^ is discontent in the east, and not nine1 tent in the west either. But, as soo gf navigation is closed, the commercial J of the west, as far as- the transportafi c9ji grain is concerned, is stopped. NothiS®g 0f take place. If there should be min10 r;eS bushels of wheat still stored in the gra t>« of that western country, if there sl>o de' a rise in price, or a sudden demand, 1 "west; mand could not be supplied from the to because, though whatever may be the contrary, the single line of railway c0jjr we have to-day is not adequate to tnrtatl01' mercial necessities or to the transp01 flde. of cereals. The statement has been tj,jS and it has been repeated on the A0.01', j,y th® House, that if wheat has been carried Canadian Pacific Railway by the sli<A shore of Lake Superior, the statistic cgr that an infinitesimal quantity has l:), do11®, ried. But it is unfortunately beyo' jm that the grades and curvatures of ,jj a® around the shore of Lake Superior permit the successful commercial of wheat over it. Therefore, tfl sl!° |,e siderations make it necessary that1 _ct ta have another line of railway to c0' w11111 east with the west, so as to supply 1 < of the community. , aye 11 A, In what I have stated so far, t i w'l1' chiefly in view the section of the r 1 t0 we have in contemplation which * nect the tidal waters of the St. 7je]ds and the Atlantic with the whea of6thIaIries- Iu regard to the other section fii„ r°ad, from the city of Winnipeg to the no Pacifi, dissoi c ocean, no dispute can arise, and I'herp5S0Uailce 01 opinion has been heard, on;,,; s««ms to be a general consensus of be Miat that section of the road has to atf i*<i§ WftjYl U1 IT In m t0 tjie tidal waters of the Atlantic built, and built immediately. Unfortun-! sa to the section of road extending east- *dely 4-U "" iUJlUVUiWkViJ . re8arci t same unanimity does not exist in the *2? estimation, and in the judgment of as ife,Veininent, that section of road is just Sectiouess^ry a* this moment as' the other in thk But there has been an impression "'hieh .eountry that the section of country ls to be covered by the road from fenee eastwards towards the St. Law-,n'ession , l'en and inhospitable. That im-Pr0tBlll" "as been carefully cherished and because ate<^ even 011 t,le floor ot'tBis House, he; °n the floor of this House, we have eard W ule floor of this Hoi Mth a „ statement made with some relish 'eainW800(h. 'teal of satisfaction and with epuntrv strdIes> that that section of the Pines. 'pWas a land of muskegs and jack ®'l ls' jln,ei'haPS the first consideration after that Seoi so much what is the character of K^enatinr°-1 ot" country. The first con-[DOT]k tile ni1 ls whethei' or not, whatever may 1 . to fleeter of the country, it is poss-w-ti thene a location for a line of f Mil rip, . Sllcl1 gradients and curvatures ?! height mit tlle commercial transportation )Te have of cereals, and the information *le efjeof11+,ljaiKt> which is abundant, is to '*h win Ktpat such a line can be found, ir?Ulltry. rr, t°und through that section of l0tlleut is t 6 information we have at this .?* the di?+to tlle effect that for three-fourths the ,.tance between Quebec and WinniuVm' 'vhich6 *Tin run °ver a level plateau, }, h be aj 1 the construction of a railway *vei.



JM, even "L as res ??hhtry Las t0 the "Oh 4.J1 " as feasible as over the prairies, eneral character of the h that it ^ave to-day abundant informa tiai h to J„4S Possessed of a character in V-i, ful tij °u a.nd climate which will he a hsti?' have l.hPointment to those gentlemen ®tat g it. n611 a morbid pleasure in ma-We euieot r„, upon a time I made the think ft iu i. tae floor °f this House that 111?? °f counigar<1 to the character of this deal Statenim* hiountains of information. of siiea„at was received with a great Cfl, Sreri"S incredulity, taj,, taius cannot expect that these Vj3 Win' L, niore than any other momi-thpo s of seif® to those wilful and blind o-rv, . 'seit-i: to p Sentlome U11posed prejudice. But, if '''on? to the „?U Wou'd only take the trouble fijm h fan ,. .onntalii themselves, the scales tty mat there11-1 t.lleir eyes and they would Dow'l good i*V? that section of our conn-hot ,.a 'arse „ fair land, quite able to sup-hlote? he. t ,1 opulation. These words are °f that °lrow them from the first ex-hW'hhiy ti,.,f 0h,ntry, because it is not only 1 Mori ?, that country lias been ex-han 200 years ago, when Canada was still under the French regime, the French Government sent an exploratory party to the region between the mountains and Hudson's Bay. That expedition was composed of M. de St. Simon, an officer of the French government, a second man whose name is not known, and) Father Albanel, a Jesuit missionary. The party left Tadousac in the month of August, 1671. They ascended tlie Saguenay river, explored Lake St. John, and traversed the rivers flowing into the Hudson's Bay. They wintered in that section and explored it thoroughly not returning to Tadousac until the month of August of the following year. The report of that exploration is available ; it is to be found in Les Relations des Jesuites, a work which we have in the library. Speaking of the character of the country, Father Albanel used this very expressive language-I quote from the American edition of the Relations des Jesuites which was published a few years ago by Mr. Thwaites (page 181). On the 23rd and 24th of June we found a less mountainous region. Its atmosphere is much milder, and its fields are beautiful ; and the soil would bear abundantly and be capable of supporting a large population if it were cultivated. At page 205 he continues :- They are in error. Perhaps he anticipated with prophetic vision the speeches which we heard last session on the floor of this House- They are in error who have held that this region whether by reason of the intense cold and ice and snow, or 'the lack of wood suitable for building or heating, is uninhabitable. They have not seen these vast and dense forests ; these beautiful plains and these wide prairies, bordering the rivers in various places and covered with every kind of grass suited to the maintenance of cattle. I can assert that on the 15th of June, there were wild roses here, as beautiful and fragrant as those at Quebec. The season seems to be further advanced, the air extremely mild and agreeable. There was no night during my visit ; the twilight had not yet faded from the west when the dawn of day appeared in the east. This is the character of the country that the new railway will cross. Two hundred years have elasped since these lines were written, but this country is yet unsettled. And what is the reason ? The .reason is perhaps, not so much the want of communication, as the impression that has prevailed, and is still prevailing in some quarters, that a country so far north is not fit for the habitation of man. But we have learned in recent years that the question of longitude and latitude has little to do with climatic conditions, and even far to the north we have not only found the precious metals, but we have found that it is possible for vegetables to grow and mature. Why, Sir, it is not more than forty years ago, when some of the highest and ablest men we have



in the hind-I will not cite their names because they are well-known-predicted, that t-he fertile plains of Manitoba and the Northwest Territories-which are fast becoming the granary not only of the continent _ but of the! whole world-were unlit for agriculture. It was not that the land was not fertile, but it was because they believed that the frost would not permit of grain maturing iii a country so far north. We know how these prophecies have been falsified. We know that within the last twenty years or so, settlers have crossed the Laurentian Mountains, and finding good land to the north of the Lake St. John region, they have started a new Quebec there, which proves the truth of the statement made by Father Albanel two hundred years ago. Having come to the conclusion therefore, that it was in the interest of the country, necessary that a new railway should be built, through that region, we believed it would be sound policy and good business to interest in that enterprise, the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada. 1 need not go over the full details of the contract which we made, and which was fully debated last session on the floor of this parliament. Suffice it to say, that one of the leading features, and perhaps the leading feature of that contract, was that the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada would not only be a party to this enterprise, but that they would have a controlling interest in it, and would practically take the enterprise on their own shoulders. When the moment came for us to discuss with the Grand Trunk Railway Company the terms of the contract which had been submitted to parliament and approved, the Grand Trunk Railway Company made the objection that the conditions imposed upon them were too onerous ; that they could not undertake to float, and to organize, and to finance this enterprise unless the government would relax a little some of the more binding features which had been inserted in that contract. They made several requests which are now before parliament, and after a lengthy discussion with their representatives, we agreed upon certain modifications to which we now ask the assent of parliament. The proposition which they made to us, and the concessions which were made by us are now before the House., They ara not numerous, and I venture to say that our hon. friends opposite, when they saw the narrow extent of the concessions which we had agreed to, were surprised at the moderation of the Grand Trunk Railway Company, and the comparatively unimportant modifications which we were called upon to make. Not only were they surprised at the moderation of the concessions which we made, but I believe they were vexed, because it deprived them of a good deal of the thunder which they were prepared to fulminate here. At all events, the proposition is before parliament, Sir WILFRID LAURIER, and the time has now come to discuss ' I would suspect from the smiles which 1 on the faces of my hon. friends opp°sl * that to-day they are not quite satisfied, suspect that they will have some fault ta ing even yet, but*I have been so accustom to that from these hon. gentlemen, that a . thing which they may say will not sujP1 me now. I am not after all surprised, n do I find much fault, if on this, as on e' e * other occasion, it has not been found 1 ' sibie to satisfy the gentlemen on the position benches. " t),e Let us see, however, tlie nature and extent of the modifications we have The first of these modifications relates the time within which tlie line is to be b and tlie proposition to which we tO'a'e ask tlie assent of parliament is in R terms : coja Sec. 1. Notwithstanding anything in the *of contract contained, the time for completlonall(l the western division of the railway shall be ; 0f the same is hereby extended to the first December, 1911, and the tenth paragraph j,y said contract is amended accordingly, a° .ord inserting the word ' strikes ' after the ' floods ' in the seventh line thereof. By the terms of section 10 of the coir tontract submitted to parliament last ses® 0f it is provided that the western sectio' the line, the portion from Winnipeg to tj,e Pacific ocean, should be built within r period of five years commencing Decei 10, 1903. The company thought that rt limit of time was perhaps a little too s g(j and the only modification which they aL. to was that in case of failure on their Pflr ct, comply with this condition of the c0'" for tlie deposit of $5,000,000 should not l'eited. Their application was in terms : , Time for the completion of the dt,1l?tae®ber of the western division, fixed as D® c0&' 1, 1908. is considered short. Failure t ,.eat® plete within the time should at least not a forfeiture of the deposit. We did not altogether agree to tbj^ e%-we provided that the time should u' tended by three years so that the will have until December. 1, 1911, in to complete their line. , \vbicP These are all of the concessions ]e<>r liave been made except that to * flootls1 timate causes for delay, such aS * disturbances, &c., strikes are aic , 0tbe1' di o" tin? am sure that our bon. friends on , .eCUv side of tlie House will have no 0 to agree to this modification of the co je-Tbe next clause is in relation to Qjg&o posit. The demand made by tbe ^.or<JS: Trunk Railway Company is in these ,, Upon the issue of the guaranteed ft® ^ aP forming the deposit already ma^|rand I''''idproved by the shareholders of the - sv"~,0{ legislation to be passed confirming Rjjed * tution and acceptance in lieu of that by the agreement. alb! st>'



[DOT]718 company to be entitled to a release of 8 deposit at least to the extent that it forms <livi -lty tor t*le construction of the western ti 1S10.n upon the expenditure in such construc-b0\°f $5,000,000 realized from the proceeds of nds to be guaranteed by the Grand Trunk. hl^lle r.eason for this demand will be ex* atnecl in a moment. I may say at once that 6 did not comply with this request. What "'as agreed to is to be found in Section 2 il ,Ile supplementary contract, and is in u>ese words : v'dhsianding anything contained in the sai i eilt^ and twenty-ninth paragraphs of the hav co,1tract., the company shall, when it shall ? completed the construction of the said of th11 division in accordance with the terms shall6 contract as hereby amended, and Of fif,llave supplied rolling stock to the amount eaSf teen. million dollars ($15,000,000), if the stru®,ri\ division shall not then have been con-entit, d and completed by the government, be the V84 to the return oi the deposit made under tWel£th paragraph of the said contract, or fen ^a.rt thereof which may then remain unfor-tcrm in the hands of the government Under the shali 01 the Said contract ; and the company the 1 also he entitled to have the guarantee of *SsuM°7ernment endorsed upon the said bonds - ®d in respect of the western division, pursuant tent" *° ParaSraPh twenty-nine of the said tj0l ract ; and if it is shown to the satisfae-Si o£ the government that the western divi-the „ "'ll be completed and rolling stock to Ooo One1'* amount o£ fifteen million dollars $15,-c°mW) supplied before the construction and apb]j ti°n o£ the eastern division and that the C0' ddtion of the said deposit will enable the ai>4 any £o so complete the western division apd ®uPPly rolling stock to the said amount depol-ft the same will be so supplied, the said shch [DOT] shall be released by the government in avi.0 'hatalmeots as may from time to time be p®ea. uPon. stockVjae<1, however, that, of the said rolling ($15 n t° the amount of fifteen million dollars hum w>000), rolling stock to the amount of five of 11 dollars ($5,000,000), to the satisfaction ad j 6 government, shall then have been mark- ?htl 'h the manner provided by the twenty-secbe ai)aragraPh of the said contract, ready to said Sfgncd to the eastern division under the all ffaraKraph upon its completion and to serve Said 6 Purposes in respect of the whole of the hlillJ'h'tract intended to be served by the five st0(.j. , dollars ($5,000,000) worth of rolling hl,.nUo|P the said twenty-second paragraph explain that by section 20 of the °°hiT> contract, it was provided that the eitije fV" would make a deposit of $5,000,000 tlia(. r "l cash or government securities, and tiU|e (leP°sit of $5,000,000 was to be a guar-diyj : tor the construction of tlie western tiopp'011 of the road within the time men-*r0 «.in the contract. By one of the other it -ty si°ns of the contract, paragraph 22. bob)' a Provided tlint the company would be i'0;i,i' as part of its contract to equip the *'.hOi'i't*1, rolling stock to the extent of $20,-'[DOT]I'n' '* This applied not only to the westtonq'ftion of the road, but to the whole I1'oin Moncton to the Pacific ocean, hut it was further stipulated in addition that at least $5,000,000 worth of rolling stock would be marked and set aside for the special use of the eastern section of the road. The company represented to us that the terms in relation to this deposit were too exacting, that it might happen that when the company had completed the western division and would be prepared to equip it with rolling stock and to equip the whole road with roiling stock, the government section would not be completed, and in a condition to receive the rolling stock and that then the deposit might be kept by the government for an indefinite time. The company not unreasonably thought there should be a limit to the time for which the government could retain this deposit. We thought this provision reasonable enough, therefore we have inserted in the amended contract the stipulation which I have just read, if when the company shall have completed the western section, the eastern section shall not have been completed by the government, and shall not be in a position to receive the roiling stock, then the company shall be entitled to the release of its deposit, provided that of the twenty millions of rolling stock, five millions is to be set aside for the eastern section as security that it will be equipped. We hope, and it is our intention that the construction of the eastern section will proceed pari passu with that of the western section. The government, however, would not take any chances on that, and stipulated that if at the moment it had completed its part of the road, the government had not completed the eastern section, then the company should be entitled to a release of the deposit. This seems to be a very reasonable arrangement, and I do not think that our lion, friends opposite will have much to criticise in it. We now pass to the third section of the new agreement which is in these terms : Pending the completion of the eastern division. Tlie paper as printed says : Upon the completion of the eastern division. But that is evidently a misprint and the word * pending ' must be inserted to make the meaning clear. Pending the completion of the eastern division by the government, the company shall be entitled to lease from the commissioners, to be appointed under the said Act, and to operate such portions of the said eastern division as may from time to time be completed, but upon such terms as may be agreed upon between the company and the said commissioners, which terms are not to be more onerous than those of the lease of the whole division by the said contract provided for, save in so far as may be necessary to give full effect to the paramount right of the said commissioners next hereinafter mentioned, and subject always to the paramount right of the said commissioners to



use and operate the same without any payment of toils or other compensation for such purposes as they may deem necessary or expedient in the execution of their commission. I may here refer the House to section 20 of the original contract. It is provided in section 20 of the original contract that: When completed the said eastern division shall be leased to, and operated by, the company for the period of fifty years, at a rental, payable as follows :-For the first seven years of the said term, the company shall operate the same, subject only to payment of ' working expenditure ' and defined in paragraph fourteen* of this agreement ; for the next succeeding forty-three years the company shall pay annually to the government, by way of rental, a sum equal to three per centum per annum upon the cost, of construction of the said division, ascertained in the manner defined in paragraphs fifteen and sixteen of this agreement, provided that, if, in any one or more of the first three years of the said period of forty-three years, the net earnings of the said division, over and above ' working expenditure,' shall not amount to three pej; centum of the cost of construction, the difference between the net earnings and the rental shall not be payable by the company, but shall be capitalized and form part of the cost of construction, upon the whole amount of which rental is required to be paid at the rate aforesaid. after the first ten years of the said lease, and during the remainder of the said term. Regarding this, the company made the following request : Upon the completion of the construction of the eastern division, the company should have the option of operating under lease the portions constructed upon undertaking to pay working expenses and to hand to the government a portion (to be fixed) of the net earnings. Rental payable under the lease to be made by the company upon the completion of the eastern division to be made a charge only upon net earnings for the whole term, or at least for a longer period than the three years provided in the agreement (section 20). Iu other words, the company proposed simply to pay the net profits and nothing else, but the government would not agree to that. The only amendment made to the contract in this respect is this, that pending the construction of the eastern division, as soon as a section is completed, it can he leased to the company on terms to be agreed upon, but not to be more onerous to the company than those stipulated in the contract. This is the whole departure from the contract under this head, and to this I do not think our friends opposite will have any serious objection. The next section is of more importance. It relates to the assistance to be given by the government for the construction of the western division. This provision of the new contract is embraced in sections 4 and 5 : 4. The 28th paragraph of the said contract Is amended by striking thereout all the words following the word 'not ' in the eighth line thereof and inserting instead thereof the words * in respect of the prairie section exceed $13,000 per Sir WILFRID LAITRIER. mile of the mileage thereof, although 15 P cent of the said cost of construction may ha exceeded the said sum of $13,000 per mile. 5. Notwithstanding anything in the said c° tract contained, the government may and sh®n preserving always the proportions in the sal contract, provided as between the prairie * mountain sections of the western division. i® plement for the purposes and subject other"'! to the provisions of the said contract, guarantee of the bonds of the said c° pany to be issued for the cost of conStr^-tion of the said western division, in such m ner as may be agreed upon, so as to make proceeds of the said bonds so as to be guar 0i teed a sum equal to 75 per centum of the coB.„ei construction of the western division ascertai as provided in the said contract but not e*ce'6f ing in respect of the prairie section $13,00y l mile. /! HF I have here to call the attention oi House to section 28 of the original c tract. That section provided that the * j)(, ernment would guarantee the bonds of g(l company to the extent of T5 per cent the cost of construction of the western j ision. But the liability of the governm* was not to exceed $13,000 per mile in prairie section or $30,000 per mile h' mountain section. The company man® ;ji alternative request which will he fotm fettle correspondence brought down. They ^ quested first that the government _siw t() guarantee an issue of bonds sufficien^ ^ realize 75 per cent of the whole cost ^ construction, without any restriction < >er liability. Or they made an alternative that tlie government would advance goy«,nh,eI,t proposed that the money. They should- Raiso the aid proposed to be given by j, of government securities bearing int.er.,t oaf.' jsSae three per cent and now quoted at or aboU(0 and accept as security for the advances , * in construction, bonds of the company. . u0i 74 5 Such bonds to form a portion of one ,, pe et>' per cent of which the government shall t0 pa titled to receive and hold, and the balance when guaranteed by the Grand Trunk the Company, used for the purpose of rai° additional 25 per cent required. , , j. eithe The government would not accept ,tj0n of these propositions, but the P1 which was finally adopted, is enib°a' ^ the section I have just read, and is - to effect. First of all the restriction the liability of the government Sn„ I>! in the mountain section the original contract the guarantee was limited to mile in the mountain section ^ we undertake to guarantee 75 of the cost of construction, ' ' ft)6' it may he, without any restricts* [DOT][DOT] pt<> we undertake also to implement s ceeds of the sales of the D as to make the amount actuaih^^ into the construction, 75 Pel' . ,g Js \ the total cost of construction- *1 agi'ee be dime on conditions to he furth is removed- nt goveD1 e, py ce"! et pet wr J?®n between tlie government and the com-uii i , *ri?e reason of this change is obvious, L1 requires very little explanation, It is Ul ,e *-oun<I in tlie altered condition of the tla-t market. It is a matter of notoriety cliffl ,tlle mo*ey market has become very Tl re.nt from what it was six months ago. been' Was easy and affluent. Now it has cred'1?6 stringent and contracted. The io-cla ^ Canada has not suffered, but is Uja ' y lust as high as ever, and Canadians kovl,. Proud of the fact that Canadian as pnrr*ent securities are quoted as high eiido ,ng. 11 consols. But even with the gov^Uon °f the bonds by the Canadian ietv nent to-day, it is a matter of notor-[DOT]- [DOT] hat these bonds could not be sold in i'eaii Purket at the price they could have that 6C six months ago. It is notorious Cauad?Ven with the endorsation of the liig]' lan government, whose credit is as "hi'hw that °f any government in the s°kl to-day, these bonds could not be govei..XcePt at a heavy discount, and the ^UpieiT)111611* therefore has undertaken to bet\vePen^ difference which may exist and ri,U. the price realized by the bonds done ,,?u' lace value. How this is to be 'home,?,6 rle n°t prepared to say at the ljet\vee,r' If: is to be a matter of agreement for tl .p rbe company and the government, °f tin,,- reason, that the present condition mgs tllUl 4i ill cl I. KtJL lb IU CUll 1111 Uc cl© it Wyy lle bonds have to be sold at a to aqVf,,!,seouht, the government will have UP th.' ah<l to ulII.ei'enCe between the face value ®u°Uld ., i)llce realized ; but if the market 'J'as sK- yei't to the condition in which it [her Uihhths ago, the amount to be fur-by the government would be issiip.f. [DOT] Moreover, the bonds will not Verm a day- Their issue may take ;° be ars' and arrangements will have 'b'een the~-by mutual understanding be- «hd company and the government, tiL* the dll cl Sab°uds are i H0Uhcih<:tirn! ,°f tbe Governor General in ;h' bv +iT- will be made still more ?6Se boim°Vernment will have to see that Co** saiictioi:ai'^ issuo<I with the approval h r by the^v P'11 to bo introduced, than it J?cti'act , xPlanation I have given and the f..Pt^viaj nought down. This is the most the fpai'ture that has been made L i >t is terms of the original contract, t-q be justifie(1auCharactel'' 1 think, amPly a i-6 arisg-i h by the new conditions that highg ®ven. though it: may involve Hn/ruuieut r 4T,7'J7V, Kjn ult3 y!l thB °Ught W, think it is very reasonable tho of tim° T$ommeiKl itself to the judg-*iPeoplo ® House, aud the judgment of can 6 iievr Cauada at large. tL1 tbe att£,?Y,estion to which I have to Thj Paylllei], ut'on of the House is as to th*® is M tlie interest on tlie bonds. SePaEd®d for in sections 0 and - aPhs read ns follows : outlay on the part of the 6 Notwithstanding anything in the said contract contained, the government shall not exercise any rights in respect of possession, foreclosure or sale, by reason of non-payment of interest by the company under the thirty-first, thirty-second or thirty-third paragraphs of the said contract, or under all or any of them, unless and until there shall be such default to the extent in the whole of a sum equal to five years of such interest, as the company is not relieved from payment of or permitted to defer or capitalize by the provisions of the said paragraph. 7. In case of such default being made by the company in respect of the interest of the said bonds so guaranteed by the government as would, under the provisions of the said contract as amended hereby, entitle the government to take possession of the said western division or to foreclose or sell the same, the remedy of the government shall, notwithstanding anything in the said contract contained, be the taking possession thereof by and through an agent or manager to be appointed as hereinafter provided, whose powers and duties shall be to manage and operate the said western division, to receive all the tolls and revenues thereof, to pay thereout working expenditure as defined by ' the Railway Act, 3903,' including the expenses of such management or agency, and to distribute the surplus tolls and revenue, afterpayment of such working expenditure, pari passu between the government or other holders of the bonds secured as provided by paragraph 35 (a) of the said contract and guaranteed by the government and the holders of the bonds secured as provided by paragraph 35 (b) of the said contract and guaranteed by the Grand Trunk Railway Company, in the proportion of seventy-five per centum of such surplus tolls or revenues to the holders of the former issue of the bonds and twenty-five per centum to the holders of the latter issue, and the mortgage to be prepared under the said paragraph 35 (a) shall contain appropriate provisions in that behalf. The said manager or agent is to be appointed by the government, with the concurrence of the company, or, if they are unable to agree, by a majority of the Supreme Court of Canada, Section 31 of tlie original contract provides that, on the prairie section, tlie company shall pay the interest on the bonds from the date of their issue, and, in default of payment the coupons shall be taken by the government which shall thereby be subrogated to all the rights of tlie creditor and be entitled to exercise all the prerogatives of the bondholders Tlie next paragraph provides that, in the mountain section, for seven years the company shall not be required to pay interest, but the interest shall be paid by the government. For the next three years, the company shall pay the net profits of the road, and. it there is a deficiency between the not protits md tiie amount necessary to pay three per sent, it shall be capitalized and added to the debt of the road. Then, after that- that is, after ten years-the company snail my the interest, and, in default of payment, the coupons shall he taken by tl government, which shall be subrogated to *ill the rights and powers of ciemtoi-. i'lie company represented that ibis sectio



was altogether too onerous and made the following request : Interest should only be made a charge upon net earnings of the company, with a proviso that to the extent that such interest is not paid in any year it shall be charged up against the company and carried over, bearing interest, and be payable out of the first surplus of earnings in any year thereafter over and above the amount required to pay the fixed charges accruing due in that year. Failing the company being able to pay the interest as herein contemplated, the whole amount unpaid to be added to the principal of the mortgage and be payable when the same becomes due. In other words, the company proposed simply that they should not pay the Interest stipulated in the agreement which I have read, but that the extent of their obligation should be to pay the net profits of the road and nothing more. The government would not agree to that, but we made certain conditions which were accepted finally by the company, and which are embodied in the agreement whicli I have read. The first concession was that the government would allow five years of grace in the payment of interest, but, if the company defaulted for full five years, the government would be empowered to exercise, not the rights stipulated in the agreement-that is, to take possession of the road or exercise the right of foreclosure-but that the road should be put in the hands of a manager who would manage it for the benefit of all parties interested, and would distribute the earnings between tlie government and the Grand Trunk Railway Company in the proportion of 75 per cent to the government and 25 per cent to tlie company. I would like tlie House to bear in mind that, according to the tenor of the agreement, the road is to be built by the joint guarantee of the government and the Grand Trunk Railway Company, 75 per cent of tlie guarantee being furnished by the government and 25 per cent by the company. Now, if we had not agreed to this modification what would be tlie consequence ? Here is a case, in which the company could say to us- and say very properly I think-that the conditions we had imposed upon them were too exacting and made it impossible, or, if not impossible, very difficult, for them to finance the enterprise. Suppose we had kept to ourselves the right, after the road was built, to take possession of it the moment there was default in the payment of interest, naturally, tlie second issue of bonds, which lias to be guaranteed by the Grand Trunk Railway Company, would be blemished to an extent far more serious than under tlie new contract. The party who was asked to advance the money upon the second issue of the bonds would have before him the prospect that, if there was a had year, through failure of crops or other reason, and it were impossible for the company to pay tlie interest upon the bonds, the government might step in and Sir WILFRID LAURIER. take possession of tlie road. In that cas'< the bonds would not realize the same P1'1 as they will now that we have a different * ^ rangement for the protection of all ' * creditors. The new arrangement offers ' into inducement to investors to put money the enterprise because they know that. there is a failure of crops and the inte1'®', cannot be paid, there will be no over the road. They know that t*1 must be five years' failure to pay ^ interest before tlie government can eX.,0 else its rights under the bonds and n * that the right of the government will i bo to take forcible possession hut sb"J to have tlie road put in the hands ot' receiver who will manage it for the j of those who have put money into it- * )(j is to say, the government of Canada j, the creditors of the company. Under s e circumstances, the bonds must sell for n^e than they would otherwise, and so j, road will be burdened to a less degree t ' j. it would be if we had adhered to the mil agreement. These reasons seem and we agreed to them ; and I think l*eJf what we have done will commend 1 Ajc to the good sense, and also to the pah Ae sense of hon. gentlemen on the other of the House. je- Now, we come to tlie last important ct, parture that has been made in the com ^ It is with regard to tlie common ® g jji Section 27 of the original agreement W these words : a The company undertakes that the ge' Trunk Railway Company of Canada s"' stock 1 quire and take the said common st ii shah 0e iCe P* amount of twenty-five million dollars, shares held by directors, not exceedi * thousand shares, and shall hold the saIj0„g a ing'the term of the said lease, and s0ptn&e^l any of the bonds guaranteed by the g0'1 retflalP under the terms of this agreement shal outstanding unpaid. The new departure that 1ms been to this arrangement is as follows : (g- Notwithstanding anything in the 2d gra® graph of the said contract contained, ^ trunk Railway Company shall not, jjarS . acquisition of the twenty-five million glia's common stock therein mentioned (*.jjousaAj! held by directors, not exceeding one p0giti ^ be prevented from making any sUC5,rand 1 of such common stock as the said G,-e(j, h , Railway may deem expedient, Pi° . vay ever, that the said Grand Trunk Raned b1., ot ay may ueem expeuieiu,, i'' ,i«,gy ^ thX that the said Grand Trunk R® in g{ pany shall, during the delay menu joflAls , t/\ Vinlfl & fill® m said paragraph, continue to hold a e*a t0 the said stock by such title as _ -paof the said Grand Trunk Railway ' > control the policy of the company- ,],g tl*' I stated at the opening ol' ui.v when we determined to undertake - p°* A prise wo thought it would he b Q ^ and sound business to hrlnft ,y; t$e Grand Trunk Railway taxis 0 0ri' thought it would be to the a^vn'()„id country at large, because we " .n{jof> * ate with it that powerful orgn" ' adv- West' an<l make it contribute to the an ,a'lt:aSe of the new population of the west Yji* "le old population of the maritime profile rf" ^ w«s part of our agreement that go [DOT] Trunk Railway Company should stii* i° enterprise and control it, and we acn,-ated that for that purpose they should idiii d-e and tiokl for all time, not only the ?2o non ^ut tlle whole of the common stock, 'tl'iii ,WX) thereof. Here again the Grand that V|1-aiiway Company represented to us agreement was a altogether too uec e and too onerous, that there was no aiJ(i ' ®*ty for it. They would not agree to it, Satie .y ask to be released from the obli-Doiif U lmP°sed upon them of controlling the Sir i, of the company for all time. But, to L1 order to do so it was not necessary it ^ ®° far as we did in the first agreement, twent I1°-t necessal'y to bind them to hold sufliejp ^tUions of stock for all time, it was aa>ount to bintl them to hold such an t° ij t of that stock as would be necessary i conti'ol of the company ; and if this stock , doae with twelve millions of the lions ' 0r. thirteen millions or fourteen mil-stock *+'1 any other quantity of common stock' ere was no necessity why such any ot'j '°uld not be treated as the stock of the « company, and made elastic so that et>Ihpai?Pany coul<l deal with it as any other dances' w°uld do. Under such circum-I'easonn iWe thought the demand was a ft, we oue and therefore we agreed to °f that the company might dispose «hvays ,de stock, provided, however, they tfietu £e^ au amount sufficient to enable !,*d t0 control the policy of the company, seeii°ntl01 tlle whole enterprise. This ! .bavturn <>to constitute a very reasonable ai<l dow, ,10111 tiie terms of tlie contract ns .Sir, irVl1,fast year. ais kind*' doni happens that in a matter of n?terprioI * er.e a contract is made in an i!ltei'Warfl„0! t,lis magnitude, it is not found ii hhmvi to susceptible of amendment I' aco witi,Veinent. That is what has taken henk of ,, reSard to this contract. I do not ' t® of ,ui lle other two sections because they t J'i not ho 1 importance, but I am sure they , °®se ;n, criticised. 1 have laid before the ([DOT] 'Sell w explanation of all the changes n ®. contr.ioiav^ thought proper to make in Willed, >10 A0! 'ast year. If they are ex 1 Jo earn ' „ 1, 10,10 they will be examined feature A, , attention, without any bias ito s to 11 Il0,)c they will commend them-fri ls°. even'l llnhiased judgment of the O%o„ ti,o° Jhe .imlginent of our lion. Vini '"ate , °ther side. The changes are lnS(.P|1t den'nvh *ley do ,lot constitute any t 1., yenr „ . U1"c from the agreement made 1lloUve oiiiv + wllich Parliament sanctioned, 'hiii" Witj.-say in conclusion tlint T lay 'd nai. . ''ll confirm,,i.„, TT__________ ask ^Ir p <h\ „ Jt- 1 fov *1 confidence before the House m their ' ' favourable consideration ' ®t tiie''(^0yt)RN (Halifax). Mr. Speak inclusion of the speech of the Prime Minister last year when be introduced this measure, he asked the House to hail it with earnestness and joy. I have observed a little less of earnestness and joy in the speech of my right lion, friend to-day. Let me say that I find very little satisfactory explanation of these amendments in the remarks which he has just addressed to the House. He went over the same ground that he went over last year. He has gone back 240 years for the purpose of showing us that the northern country through which the proposed line is to pass was then thoroughly explored, and of demonstrating to us at the same time that it was much better than the region situated to the south of it. It would naturally occur 7o every one of us that if that country was thoroughly explored 240 years ago it is a remarkable thing that it has not been developed since. What explanation has the right lion, gentleman for that failure on the part of the people of: Canada to grasp the situation which he has described to us? He tells us that there were ' mountains of information ' placed on the table of the House last year, or placed before the members. There was what my right lion, friend called a mountain of information, but after further developments took place it was found that the mountain had only brought forth a mouse ; there was very little information in it. and certainly no information which would justifiy us in undertaking to build a railway in that country without further examination and without further survey. Now there is not much in what the right lion, gentleman has said, but such as it is 1 shall have to refer to it. He says that the government had thought best to interest the Grand Trunk Railway in this enterprise. We liad all supposed, and the Grand Trunk Railway Company themselves had supposed, that they were the first to approach the government with a proposal to build from North Bay into the Northwest of Canada ; and the government of this country finding itself somewhat constrained by political exigencies, insisted in the first place that the' line should be built from Quebec to Winnipeg through a country which has not yet been explored, but which may have great possibilities ; but afterwards, constrained by certain further political exigencies, the government insisted upon adding to that the line from Quebec to the city of Moncton. That is a more accurate statement of the circumstances than the one which my right lion, friend lias given. Now let me deal in the first place with one reason which my right lion, friend i|a® P11 forward for making one at least of these further concessions. Ho says that u -reason of the additional bond guarantee upon (lie mountain section, and uPon prairie section also, is that the ®on®-market is more stringent than it ''a ' months ago. Let me point out that this co



i tract was sanctioned by parliament on the 24tli day of October last, and that this supplementary agreement was entered into by the government on the 18th day of February, I think ; and during that time I am assured by those who can speak with more authority on the subject than myself, that there was no such change in the money market as could justify the enormous concessions which have been made by this government. What does my hon. friend the Minister of Finance (Mr. Fielding) say to that ? What did he say to that during this very session ? He was asked by my hou. friend from Toronto (Mr. Osier) :


CON

Edmund Boyd Osler

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. OSLER.

Seventy-five per cent of the above to be guaranteed by the government for the construction of mountain

section $ 21,000,000

And the government agrees to pay the interest on bonds so guaranteed for seven years, that is to say $630,000 per year for 7 years.. 4,410,000

But if bonds sold at 90 per cent, then to provide above $28,000,000 there would be required $31,000,000

Seventy-five per cent of above to be guaranteed by the government for the construction of mountain sec

tion [DOT] $ 23,250,000

And the government agrees to pay the interest on bonds so guaranteed for seven years, that is to say $697,500 per year for seven years.. 4,882,500

Topic:   GRAND TRUNK PACIFIC RAILWAY.
Permalink

$ 28,132,500 SUMMARY OP OBLIGATIONS.


If 3 p.c. If 3 p.c. bonds are bonds are sold at par. sold at 90 p.c. Eastern division and Quebec bridge $117,750,000 or $130,000,000 Prairie section 13,000,000 or 13,000.000 Mountain section ... 25,000,000 or 28,000,000 $155,750,000 or $171,000,000 Thus if three per cent bonds are sold at par, the eastern division, and Quebec bridge would cost $117,750,000 ; the prairie section would cost $13,000,000 ; the mountain section would cost $25,000,000 ; total, $155,750,000. If three per cent bonds are sold at 90 j the eastern division and Quebec bridge xvi cost $130,000,000 ; the prairie section win cost $13,000,000, and tlie mountain section $28,000,000, making a total of $171.0OO,uw.



That, Mr. Speaker, is a statement of the obligations to which the country has committed itself by the project of last session as amended by the supplementary agreement which my right hop. friend has brought down. Now, if we take Mr. Blair's estimate of $139,000,000, you will find that Mr. Blair in the sum of $139,000,000, which he gave as his estimate, included for the prairie and the mountain section, the sum of $23,250,000 as the amount which the government would be obliged to guarantee. But, if you look at the estimate <>f the president of the Grand Trunk, who says that the prairie section will cost $20,000 a mile, and the mountain section $50,000 a mile, you will And that the government will be obliged to guarantee bonds to the amount of not merely $23,250,000, but of $34,000,000, the difference between these two amounts being $10,750,000. If you add this to Mr. Blair's estimate of last year, it will make his estimate in the light of subsequent developments, very little less than $150,000,000. further than that, there is another consideration. Every hon. gentleman of the House knows, that last year the member for North Norfolk (Mr. Charlton)-who I regret is not in his place now on account of illness-stated distinctly over and over again, and he spoke as the mouth-piece of the government, that it was absolutely futile to build this railway as a grain carrier from the west to the east, unless you constructed it with grades not exceeding one half of one per cent. I challenged the government, last session, to state the additional cost within $20,000,000, which that would impose upon the country, and not one gentleman on the other side was able to give any estimate founded upon any data which would be regarded as authoritative for a moment by any railway man. Now, after looking on the obligations of ihe country, with regard to this enterprise ; what do we find, on the other hand, are obligations, which as stated by the president and directors of the Grand Trunk Railway Company to their shareholders, rest upon the Grand Trunk Railway Company ? What is it that they are to do on their part if we undertake liabilities aggregating $150,000,000. or there-r.bouts ? According to the statement of the president and directors of the Grand Trunk Railway, to their shareholders at a recent meeting, the Grand Trunk Company assume a total obligation of guaranteeing three per (lent bonds not exceeding the sum of $15,000,000, or, rather about fourteen and a half million dollars. It has been stated by the president of the Grand Trunk Railway Company in the correspondence with the government, that this is a partnership. Let me not be accused of misquoting his words ; let me read them from the published correspondence which Mr. R. L. BORDEN. has been brought down, and laid upon the table of the House. It has always seemed to me that the gov®1-® ment of Canada and the Grand Trunk Company, being in point of fact partners in ( enterprise. Being in point of fact, partners in enterprise. While the Grand Trunk fku way Company last year, as its share 0 the enterprise had to guarantee bonds * exceeding $18,000,000, certainly not feeding $20,000,000 ; this year, through ta good nature of my right hon. friend-y*®' same good nature no doubt which led hj to appoint Mr. Blair to be Chairman of dy Railway Commission-this year the obU* tions of the Grand Trunk Railway ComPaj.j, are reduced to fourteen and a half *' lion dollars or thereabouts. On the c' hand, we have obligations on the coU „(i to tlie extent of about $150,000,000, on the other hand we have the other PaL. ner in the enterprise agreeing to enter to the partnership to the extent of ie' tnan $15,000,000. ^9 What were the grounds upon which * ► vast outlay was asked from parlia1® t0 last year ? The grounds were : protect the country from the abroga of the bonding privilege ; secondly, velop new territory in the north a„ fair west; and third, to provide ail a . .pis, adian route. These, stated in a few jC|j were tlie objects of this enterprise w 9g my right lion, friend presented to the y-aeIlt aiid to the country in the very eloh ,e speech which he made last year. We not heard him to-day speak of the ' ing privilege. The crisis which a ye®1 a had developed so acutely seems to by jj0t quiescent condition to-day ; there d "which seem to be that tremendous dangei ^ ^0ge called upon us last year to put aside_ ll)0r-who would say: to-morrow, and t row, and to-morrow ; and those [DOT]id °f would say : wait, wait, wait. InSr! that, my right hon. friend to-day *[DOT] tlie self saying: wait, wait, wait ; | cpo<> extent of three years in the constyg of this western railway ; and so fat' n°l eastern division is concerned, he c$ seem to be impelled by the same upland anxiety, and apprehension wide* ated him last year. 0|(j('L'c Well, Mr. Speaker, we did not to legitimate railway developmei py did not object last year to develop \\ resources of the country by moved several amendments, liowe ^ter this resolution, and we proposed a native scheme to which I will , We proposed for example, a L'^uk ' which would commit the Grand ± \icy moderate rates. It was moved W J friend from Marquette (Mr. it was voted down by tlie hon. % n,o''® on the other side of the House. an amendment for insuring train l this f1* Canadian routes. We insisted that G,' government should impose upon the o]j]j„r((,. th'imk Railway Company the same heedp!lons-because they were much more tract it was imposing in this conv.'ay pi)011 the Grand Trunk Pacific Rail-voted °mpany' an(i again the government 118 down, and my lion, friend the Hot jlaei' °t Finance said that we could beCa '!ve any amendment to the contract, hut wf everything had been agreed upon. Cv*vthmn t.he contract is opened up, when is a .. . lu* i* not agreed upon, when there 1 d0 , commencement and a new deal, "'hich 1aud ^lat any these amendments Put «, ,We suggested last year have been atttendri contract. We moved an capita|i~eat calculated to prevent undue stock L'1^011 I to guard against watered Again ?, Preyent speculation in the stock.-Juid '"e '"'ere voted down. We were was 1T Nothing could be changed, and G'Uld n£°lnted 0llt to us that the stock J'l'aiid t [DOT] ':>e speculated in because the !'°ld . runk Railway Company was to tets shoiu1! fifry yeal'S- But all these mat-e°Utract v llave been corrected when this ??Vernino *s agi,in opened up between the , bpiim, Ut anct the Grand Trunk Railway ?P}' cone and not in any single respect has 10 the co Ss on been made by the company j'very r uti'y ; but in every respect, almost 1;is beer,>ect nt least, in which any change ?, uPe 0f made-it has been made in the 'J1And m a concession by the country to the u^'hat \V.."k, ,Rail'vay Company. 'hy slim.ii Ae Position of affairs last year? (s^b'act [DOT]> d. there be any change in this lv,11' Wilf',.;,, ,°es uot my right lion, friend l, thber f.4, Laurier) know, does not every £?]>- frL.wi *his House ku '<) j d the Minister ot . ____________ v____ hon 5ai'ticular know that he and my v-On.- si,11- trio.,,1 ,, s House know, does not my t°n) the Minister of the Interior (Mr. (,®ut il0 ^articular know that he and my do atercp l,ia}ld the Minister of Trade and that . Richard Cartwright) de-bi.f vay n.„ was one of the most splendid it °l-e am- i °Sitious that was ever placed wu°t (lp,'.i,, g!slature in any country. Was ot ?1' of &d by the right hon. the Mintio,? Seutfema?nd Conlmeree and by many ... Pse fi. . 'con on the other side of the T \ bridge i?.XI!f whatever lias arisen for any 'tVhat did ihe terms of iwie ai!dtho rieUt e®0ftea pouimer an [DOT] 6 that +r- tlie other side of the t'a* bPnieii'spi,:118 ntfiway project must be tin-"16 * if \ Paying one in the very near an??11 at thw. se declarations are to be y 0" eir face value why is it that this agreement ? ade .'i.'.i tlLe right lion, the Minister of in < rrnmerce say V He said, as Hansard,' page 9361 : MiAfheve a r ,, *hl,k > to n ea"y good bargain may be one s0ft that this .advantage of both parties. I ' ls notably an instance ot this Sol^ then ,Vl, hi ,. bargain ,as uotably an instance of a IttaVetv of i, f°r the Grand Trunk. IVhy ster of M)ht solemn declaration of a speaking with allot 4.1 OT,cu|" 01 tlie Crown. thority as we know he did, is there auy further concession to the Grand Trunk? What did the hon. the Minister of the Interior say last session ? In the first place he pointed out that the net annual profits of tlie Canadian Pacific were $15,000,000 and then he proceeded to compare this proposition with the Canadian Pacific proposition very much to the advantage of the former. After declaring that the Canadian Pacific Railway ran through a very barren territory, over about tlie worst route that could have been selected in the west, he said : (Hansard, 1903, p. 8677.) But this new line o£ the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway will run from Winnipeg to the mountain pass, through a territory, every mile of which is fertile and productive. It is hardly conceivable that such should be the case, yet the information in the possession of the government amply justifies the statement I have made. There is no such fertile stretch of country in the world. And further he said : (Hansard, pp. 8678 and 8679.) The Grand Trunk Pacific, on the other hand, will go from the Rocky Mountains Pass to the coast through as rich a timber and agricultural country as there is in Canada-a. country rich in timber, mineral and soil. Then we must not forget that when the Canadian Pacific Railway was projected, there was no movement of settlers from the outside ; there were no farmers coming to Canada in 1881 from foreign countries. . . . But wrhat is the position now ? We had an immigration into the Northwest of 125,000 people last year. If it keeps on at that rate for the next ten years, think what that will mean to the Grand Trunk Pacific Railway. Think of the difference in that company compared with that of the Canadian Pacific Railway, which went travelling on for years and years before there was any appreciable influx of settlers. One would think this would be a consideration which would induce tlie government to say to the Grand Trunk : We have here a magnificent railway proposition for your consideration. We are bearing nearly all the cost of the construction of the railway ; go on with it and if you do not see fit to go on with it, we have a proposition here which will induce capitalists from almost any part of the world to embark upon that enterprise. We have faith in it, they will have faith in it. There is no need of further inducements and we will not permit you to have one further concession. But the hon. Minister of the Interior (Mr. Sifton) went further. After pointing out that the Canadian Pacific Railway had startd off with no eastern connections and with no lines through Ontario and Quebec he said : (Hansard, p. 8679.) The Grand Trunk Pacific Railway, on the contrary, will start with a magnificent system of connections, ready to open business the very day the road is finished. What does that mean. It is impossible for us to conceive the diner



ence that will make in the volume of business which the railway company will do. Consider these facts. Consider the prospects of the railway, and ask if there is the slightest reason why any sane, reasonable man, should think this company will fail in its obligation to the government. Yet not satisfied with tlie proposition stated with such force and such eloquence by the lion. Minister of the Interior (Mr. 'Sifton) all the Grand Trunk Company have to do is to go to the government and the government immediately concedes almost everything they ask. What is the view of the Grand Trunk directors with regard to this ? Let us hear what Lord Welby, one of them, said at a recent meeting- :- With the rapid settlement of the country, which will follow the establishment of the line within a very few years, it will be a very profitable line. And yet it is not enough that the country guarantees three-fourths of the cost) of the western section, it is not enough that the country builds at its own expense the eastern division and allows these corporations to have the use of it free of cost for ten years. Further concessions must be given. An opportunity must be afforded the company to deal in $12,000,000 of stock, and to deal in bonds which will be sold below par. This is done at the mere request of the Grand Trunk, and yet my right lion, friend (Sir Wilfrid Laurier) stands up and says that the concessions are very reasonable and moderate and that the country will be surprised to find that they are so very reasonable and moderate. What did Sir Charles Rivers-Wilson say : Passing as it will do through the most fertile and most promising belt of country in the whole of the Northwest Territory, there cannot be the slightest doubt that this portion of the road, built, as I have said, under such favourable and economical conditions, will immediately produce excellent results, anil will by itself more than justify the adoDtion cf the scheme in its entirety. If we are to guarantee three-fourths of the cost of that road in the Northwest, which by itself will more than justify the adoption of the scheme in its entirety, why is it that, when the Grand Trunk asks for further concessions of a very Important character from the country, the government, without even consulting parliament in the first instance, should make these amendments and allow them to be announced to the country by the Grand Trunk people themselves ? Sir Charles Uivers-Wilson further said : As regards the prairie section, the government, not unfairly, held that it would be selfsustaining from the day of its completion, and in this view we are willing to concur.


CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. R. L. BORDEN.

Topic:   $ 28,132,500 SUMMARY OP OBLIGATIONS.
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Mr. C@

Hays said :

Here is the Grand Trunk, the parent coT pany, standing with a large traffic ready t0. " B liver it west bound. This traffic is now to a competitor. It does not have to wait h .j ten or fifteen years to build up a traffic >

starts with a traffic right from the begin111 ' and that is of a most remunerative eharaci/ This enterprise which we are advocating t0,"aaj-ladies and gentlemen, combines points and vantages that no other transcontinental lhie the United States or Canada can have.

Topic:   $ 28,132,500 SUMMARY OP OBLIGATIONS.
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Mr. A@

Smithers said :

Topic:   $ 28,132,500 SUMMARY OP OBLIGATIONS.
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An hon. MEMBER.

Topic:   $ 28,132,500 SUMMARY OP OBLIGATIONS.
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April 5, 1904