October 19, 1903

LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

This is subsidized by the provincial government. I am not aware that the mind of the hon. gentleman from Bothwell (Mr. Clancy) was at all disturbed with respect to similar votes in the first five or six resolutions, and we had no reason to think that it would be any more disturbed with respect to this or any other item for the province of New Brunswick than it was with respect to the items for Ontario. Now, this railway company is a recognized, institution. The demands of the district are certainly very strong. Of course, in the summer they can get along nicely with that great highway, the St. John river; but when the river is frozen over they have no communication with the outside world except with the old fashioned vehicles.

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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

I am surprised that the hon. member for Westmoreland (Mr. Em-merson) should have dealt in such small politics as to say that any lion, member in this House would make a distincton as between provinces in these matters. I certainly should not have thought of accusing the hon. gentleman ; but he himself has taken a good deal of trouble to make it plain to us that he is ready to deal in that style of politics. I hope that no other member in this House will be so small as to consider what province these votes are going to. If the scheme itself has merits, we need not inquire what particular province it is to benefit. Had I been in the House I would have raised the same question with regard to other subsidies that I ask in this case. I am disappointed in the information we have had, and I am afraid we shall have to insist upon better, whether the railway is one for Ontario. New Brunswick or any other province, for we have a right to information. A company that was voted a subsidy three or four years ago. not having earned that subsidy and desiring its renewal, would naturally be expected to place before the Minister of Finance a complete and detailed statement of the reasons for delay, the chances of going on, and the possibilities of carrying out the work in the future. If the prospects for the future were no better than they were when the subsidies were voted. I think the duty of the Minister of Finance would be to refuse a subsidy. Of course, it is a very ingenious argument to say that the people of the locality arejinxi-ons for this subsidy. But the people as a whole should be protected. There are persons so evil-minded as to say that these

things answer a good purpose in an election. I do not know whether any such idea ever occurred to the Minister of Finance-

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The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Never.

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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

Of course, the hon. gentleman is innocent of these things, hut he may suspect that some people have them in mind. Perhaps the hon. gentleman had better be frank and tell the House that that is the reason lie decided to give this sub-isdy, and that he did not ask for any other reason.

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IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. MACLEAN.

When the ministers come beiore the House to put their estimates through, they come with accurate information and attended by their deputies. They are able, in case of a public work, for instance, to tell us what the expenditure has been to date, how the work is proceeding and what expenditure will be required for its completion. But we are asked to revote railway subsidies Without any explanation of what has been done or what it is proposed to do. It is high time we ceased to vote these subsidies unless we have definite explanations concerning them. All this is an instance of the reckless way in which millions of public money are voted by this House. I have made a rough estimate, and I find that subsidies are being voted for 1,500 miles of road. No explanations are given to us, not even encouragement held out to the people in the localities affected that these roads will be built. There is either a lack of earnestness, or something held in view that we do not know about. Certainly, no minister ought to propose in this House a vote of public money without an explanation as to how that money is to be applied. And, if the money has been voted before and not spent, we want to know why it was not expended before and whether it will be expended now.

To the Shediac and Coast Railway Company for a line of railway from Shediac to Shemogue and towards Cape Tormentine, in Westmoreland county, not exceeding thirty-eight miles, in lieu of subsidy granted by chapter S of 1900, item 25 of section 2.

Mr. CLANCY When was that subsidy voted ?

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The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

In 1900.

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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

This is in the riding of the hon. member for Westmoreland (Mr. Emmerson). If you will permit me to ask a question without charging that the only reason why I ask it is that this railway is not in Ontario, I would request an explanation of this vote.

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LIB

Henry Robert Emmerson

Liberal

Mr. EMMERSON.

This is considered a strong company. They have spent a good deal of money in surveys, but, as is well known, there have been difficulties in the way of financing such enterprises during the last two or three years. The company are in earliest. This is a section of country

that certainly is in need of a railway. It is a fishing section, and perhaps one of the richest agricultural sections of eastern New Brunswick. It is quite largely populated. The people raise large quantities of potatoes which they ship to Bermuda. They have to cart them to Shediac, where they are taken by the Intercolonial Railway. This long haul by road is a very great inconvenience, which would be overcome if the people bad a railway. I do not know that it would be a very promising investment, but certainly tlie railway would be of great convenience to the people living along that shore.

To the Mabou and Gulf Railway Company, Limited, for a line of railway from Mabou Coal Mines to a point at or near Glendyer, thence to Orangedale on the Intercolonial Railway, not exceeding thirty-four miles, a revote of subsidy granted by chapter 4 of 1894, and in substitution of the twenty-five miles subsidized thereby from Orangedale to Broad Cove.

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The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

I would call attention to resolution 62, under which a subsidy is proposed for an additional four miles of this road. This railway is connected with a large coal-mining district in Mabou in the county of Inverness.

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CON
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The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

I believe the company are now engaged in the construction of the road. It is a very substantial company, chiefly of Americans who are developing the coal mines at Mabou.

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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

Does the hon. minister observe that this subsidy was granted in 1894 ?

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The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Not to the present company. The present company have only recently taken hold of it, and they are pushing forward the work energetically.

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CON

James Clancy

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLANCY.

I imagine that one of the difficulties was that the former company held the charter and the subsidy until they could get their terms for disposing of both to the company that took it up. No doubt there is something in that, but after all it is not an isolated state of things. The hon. gentleman will agree that there ought to be some reasonable prospects on tlie part of those asking for the subsidy that the work will pay. The Minister of Finance is unable at present to give us that assurance. This business of exploiting the country in that way with the money of the people is one which we should not encourage, and I doubt whether parliament is in any case bound to make a revote to a new company, because the original promoters are bound to be bene* fited to some extent.

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The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

This is a revote of the mileage of the road for that district, but it is not a revote to tlie same company. Whatever my hon. friend may

suspect in other cases, he w ould be wrong in this case, because I happen to know that the old company lias no connection with the new one. This is a new company and a different name ; I do not think they even received the old charter. I think the one died and the other has come up as an entirely new venture.

19. To the Nova Scotia Eastern Railway Company, Limited, lor a line of railway from New Glasgow to Cross Roads, Country Harbour, thence to the town of Guysborough, and thence to the strait of Canso; with a branch from Cross Roads, country Harbour, aforesaid, down the Country Harbour river to the deep waters thereof, not exceeding 116 miles ; in lieu of the subsidies of 40 and 80 miles granted by chapter 7 *of 1901, items 4 and 1, respectively, of section 2. , 63. To the Nova Scotia Eastern Railway Com-

' pany, Limited, for a line of railway from Dartmouth through the Musquodoboit valley to a point at or near Melrose to connect there with the railway mentioned in item 19 of this section, not exceeding 120 miles.

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The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

The resolutions 19 and 03 should be read together.

These are two roads which are now being *consolidated into one company. The one starts from Dartmouth, on Halifax harbour, traverses the valley of the Musquodoboit river through the county of Halifax, thence into the county of Guysborough and, passing a point called Melrose, goes to Guysborough and Mulgrave. Then there is a crossroad which leaves the town of New Glasgow and crosses this other railway at Melrose and goes on to Country Harbour. This enterprise serves the counties of Halifax, Guysborough and Pictou and runs close to Antigonish, if it does not touch it. It covers a large portion [DOT]of the eastern section of Nova Scotia, which is at present without railway communication.

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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. Mr. HAGGART.

Is there any portion of this road built or being built ?

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LIB

Duncan Cameron Fraser

Liberal

Sir. FRASER.

The surveys have all been made and the people are at work on it now. There is a subsidy granted by the Nova Scotia government and a contract made with this company. The company is composed largely of Canadians : Mr. Fitzpatrick, of New Glasgow ; Mr. Stratton, the Provincial Secretary of Ontario ; and Mr. McCormick, a member of this House. It is an excellent company. They have made all their financial arrangements and completed their surveys. The Nova Scotia government granted a subsidy of $5,000 a mile over the whole railway.

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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Sir. SPROULE.

Is the hon. member for *Guysborough in the company himself ?

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LIB

October 19, 1903