October 13, 1903

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

There is a substantive condition, that no lease shall be issued for a location unless it be recommended by the commissioner of the Yukon Territory. What my hon. friend from Ottawa has suggested as the meaning of this, may l>e a better provision, but it is not what is stated in the regulation at ail. It does not provide that the commissioner shall not issue

a location until he Is satisfied that there is sufficient dumping ground and sufficient water for working the location; it simply states* baldly, that no lease be isssued for a location unless it be recommended by him, leaving it absolutely in the discretion of the commissioner. That is what I object to. I think that everything my right hon. friend has mentioned could be covered by some such provision as I have suggested. You could make your regulations as to dumping ground and as to sufficiency of water, and you could provide that unless the regulations were complied with within a reasonable time, the location should revert to the Crown. That would cover everything that my hon. friend from Ottawa (Mr. Belcourt) has said, and would remove this objectionable element [DOT] of testing this absolute jurisdiction in an officer of the department, however capable and upright.

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The PRIME MINISTER.

The next two orders are Nos. 898 and 899. They refer to the same subject, namely, the royalty to be paid upon gold. Instead of the former royalty of 10 per cent, they substitute a royalty of 21 per cent. No. 898 contains the ordinance fixing the royalty at 2J per cent, and No. 899 summarizes this, and proclaims the ordinance. No. 938 is as follows :

The Governor in Council, in virtue of the provisions of clause 47 of the Dominion Lands Act, as enacted by section 5 of chapter 15 of 55-56 Victoria, and of section 8 of the Yukon Territory Act, as enacted by section 3 of chapter 34 of 2 Edward VII., is pleased to order and doth order that clause (a) of section 41 of the regulations governing placer mining in the Yukon Territory established by Order in Council dated 13th March, 1901, shall be amended by adding the following paragraph thereto :-

If a claim is not rerecorded within three months subsequent to the date up to which it was recorded, the claim shall then be deemed to be abandoned and open for occupation and entry by a free miner, even although the required amount of work may have been done within the year for which the claim was recorded or the commutation fee paid in lieu thereof, and the certificate called for by the regulations obtained.

No. 941 enacts :

That clause 38 of the regulations governing placer mining in the Yukon Territory, established by Order in Council dated 27th November, 1901, be amended by providing that the fee of $2 therein mentioned be the fee for the registration of the instrument therein referred to for one claim, and $1 for each additional claim or fraction of a claim described in said instrument.

The next Order, No. 960, enacts as follows:

That the third paragraph of clause (d) of section 6 of the Order in Council of 8th July, 1898, be cancelled, and that the following be substituted therefor

Every entry made in any of the mining recorder's books shall show the date upon which such entry is made. A fee of twenty-five cents shall be charged for obtaining informa-Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

tion, either verbally or in writing, from the mining recorder with respect to each claim, and documents filed shall be open to public inspection upon payment of a fee of fifty cents; but for copies of any documents the fee shall be two dollars and fifty cents up to two hundred and fifty words, and fifty cents for each extra one hundred words.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

To whom do these fees belong ?

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The PRIME MINISTER.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

On the very highest authority in the empire, the House of Lords and Privy Council, I would be prepared to say that that Order in Council is absolutely ultra vires. Where you have a statute, the Governor in Council or any one else can only act within the terms of the statute ; and if the statute says that application must be made within a particular time, and it is not made within that time, neither the Governor in Council nor the officers of the department have the slightest power to make it a good application by affidavit and certificate.

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The PRIME MINISTER.

The concession ought to be granted unless in the interval somebody has made application himself. If a third party had come in and made application for the same lot, then I have no doubt the point would have been decided in favour of the new application, but if no application had been made I think we could very well waive the technical point.

The next one, of the 22nd of December, 1902, No. 1899, provides :

1. All unappropriated Dominion lands in Manitoba, the North-west Territories and within the Yukon Territory shall be open to prospecting for petroleum by an individual or company desiring to do so. In case there should arise any dispute as to whether lands are 'or are not unappropriated, the question shall be decided by the Minister of the Interior whose decision shall be final. Provided, however, that the minister may reserve for an individual or company who have machinery on the land to he prospected, an area of 640 acres of such shape as the minister may approve of, and that the reservation may be made for such period as he may decide.

2. Should oil in paying quantities be discovered by a prospector on any vacant lands of

the Crown, and should such discovery be established to the satisfaction of the Minister of the Interior, an area not exceeding 640 acres of land, including the oil well and such other land as may be determined by the Minister of the Interior, will be sold to the person or company making such discovery at the rate of $1 per acre.

The next one, dated the 7th day of March, 1903, Order No. 323, provides that:

Whereas section 1 of the regulations governing the administration of Dominion lands in the Yukon Territory containing coal, established by the Order in Council of the 21st January, 1901, provides for the collection of a royalty on the gross output of the mine at such rate per ton as may from time to time be specified hy the Governor General in Council.

Therefore the Governor in Council is pleased to order the amount of the -royalty to he collected shall be and the same is hereby fixed for a period of ten years from the date hereof at the rate of 10 cents per ton of two thousand pounds and that -the right of altering said rate after the expiration of such period of ten years be reserved.

The next one provides for a special case, and. I shall read it in full. It is as follows : Extract from a report of a committee of the Honourable the Privy -Council, approved by His Excellency on the 7th March, 1903.

On a report dated 23rd February, 1903, from the Minister of the Interior, submitting that a deep shaft was sunk by Mr. A. R. Thompson, of Dawson, on placer mining claim No. 3a, on Eldorado Creek, in the Yukon Territory, with a view of ascertaining whether or not a second strata of gold-bearing gravel existed at a considerable depth below what has generally been supposed to he bed rock ; that at the depth of about 220 feet a very considerable flow of water was struck which filled the shaft and overflowed to the extent of from 900 to 1,000 gallons per minute ; that owing to the very low temperature this water formed a vast glacier which threatened to envelop the town of Bonnaza and all mining claims below the- mouth of Eldorado Creek ; and that your government Incurred very considerable expenditure in successfully capping this flow and so insuring the safety of the property situated below It on Eldorado and Bonanza Creeks.

The minister states that Mr. Thompson has now applied to the Department of the Interior for the right to the water from this shaft together with the right to dispose of the same for mining and other purposes. That- by an Order in Council of the 3rd of August, 1898, provision was made for the diversion and use of water for mining purposes in the Yukon Territory, but the right to dispose of the water acquired under the provisions of these regulations was rescinded hy Order in Council, dated the 7th of December. 1901.

The minister, however, recommends that he he authorized to grant to Mr. Thompson the right to the water flowing from the shaft referred to, in accordance with the provisions of the regulations established hy the Order in Council dated the 3rd August, 1898, and the amendments thereto, together with the right to dispose of the whole or any portion thereof upon such terms and under such conditions as may be approved by the commissioner of the Yukon Territory.

The minister further recommends, as the government, however, has incurred very consider-

13S04

able expenditure in arresting the flow of water from this shaft, and as it would appear to be reasonable that a certain portion of the revenue which may be derived from the sale of the water should be paid to the Crown on account of such expenditure, that the grant to Mr. Thompson be made subject to the payment to the Crown of a royalty of not less than ten per cent of the gross amount received for the sale or use of the water, until the royalty collected equals the amount of such expenditure, together with interest on such amount at the rate of five per cent per annum. Sworn returns on a form to be furnished by the commissioner to be made monthly by the grantee to the gold commissioner showing the quantities of water sold or disposed of, and the amounts realized therefrom. and payment at the same time to be made of the royalty thereon at the rate fixed. The grantee shall keep a book in which shall be entered all sales and which shall be submitted for the inspection of the gold commissioner or other officer of the Crown for the purpose of verifying his returns aforesaid. Default in making the said returns, in producing the said book, and in payment of the royalty, if continued for thirty days after notice has been posted to that effect in the vicinity of the shaft by the gold commissioner, or by his direction, to be followed by the cancellation of the grant, in which case the works shall be taken possession of and operated by the Crown and the revenue derived from the sale of the water shall be applied to the repayment of the amount expended by the Crown in capping the flow and operating the works until the whole amount, with interest, has been repaid.

The next order, which is dated 31st March, 1903, Order No. 472, provides :

Whereas section 6 of the regulations governing the issue of leases to dredge for minerals in the beds of rivers in the Yukon Territory, established by the Order in Council of the 18th day of January, 1898, provides that the lessees shall pay to the Crown a royalty of 10 per cent on the output in excess of $15,000 as shown by sworn returns to be furnished monthly by the lessee to the gold commissioner during the period that dredging operations are being carried on; such royalty, if any, to be paid with each return ;

And whereas at the time these regulations were approved the royalty on gold mined under the provisions of the placer mining regulations was 10 per cent of the gross output, but it has since been reduced to 2J per cent on the value of the gold exported without any exemption ;

Therefore the Governor General in Council is pleased, in virtue of the provisions of clause 47 of the Dominion Lands Act, as enacted by section 5 of chapter 15 of 55-56 Victoria, and of section 8 of the Yukon Territory Act, as enacted by section 3 of chapter 34 of 2 Edward VII., to order that the portion of section 6 of the regulations governing the issue of leases to dredge for minerals in the rivers of the Yukon Territory, above quoted, and also section 6a of the said regulations shall be, and the same are hereby rescinded and the following substituted therefor :-

The same royalty shall be paid upon the output of gold as is provided, or may hereafter be provided, in the case of placer mining claims, such royalty to be paid in the maner provided in the regulations governing placer mining.

The next one of the same date, No. 473, provides that;

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LIB

Wilfrid Laurier (Prime Minister; President of the Privy Council)

Liberal

Sir WILFRID LAURIER.

Whereas section 41 of the regulations governing placer mining in the Yukon Territory, established by the Order in Council of the 13th March, 1901, provides that any free miner having duly located and recorded a claim shall be entitled to hold it for the period for which he received entry, and thence from year to year by re-recording the same, provided, however, that during each year and each succeeding year such free miner shall do or cause to be done work on the claim itself to the value of $200, or he may at his option in lieu of the work required to be done thereon each year pay to the mining recorder in whose office the claim is recorded the sum of $200 for each of the first three years, but for the fourth and succeeding years the sum of $400 must be paid in lieu of work done on the location or in connection' therewith ;

And whereas the commissioner of the Yukon Territory reports that it would be in the public interest if the amount of work done in each year on a placer mining claim could not be commuted by payment of a fee in lieu thereof ;

Therefore the Governor General in Council is pleased, in virtue of clause 47 of the Dominion Lands Act, as enacted by section 5 cf the Act 55-56 Victoria, chapter 15, and of section 8 of the Yukon Territory Act, as enacted by section 3 of the Act 2 Edward VII., chapter 34 to order, and it is hereby ordered, that the provisions contained in the several sub-clauses of section 41 of the regulations established by Order in Council of the 13th of March, 1901, for payment at the option of the free miner, in lieu of assessment work shall be rescinded on and after the 1st day of August, 1903.

The next order is also of the same date, No. 474. It provides ;

Whereas section 2 of the regulations governing placer mining in the Yukon Territory, established by the Order in Council of the 13th March, 1901, provides that for a free miner's certificate issued in favour of an individual the fee shall be $10 and sections 20 and 34 of the regulations in question provide for the payment of a fee of $15 for entry for a placer mining claim, and the payment of a like amount for renewal thereof each year ;

And whereas the commissioner of the Yukon Territory now recommends that the charge for a free miner's certificate be reduced to $7.50 and that the fee for a grant of renewal of a placer mining claim be reduced to $10 ;

Therefore the Governor in Council is pleased, in virtue of clause 47 of the Dominions Lands Act, as enacted by section 5 of the Act, chapter 15 of 55-56 Victoria, and of section 8 of the Yukon Territory Act, as enacted by section 3 of the Act, chapter 34 of 2 Edward VII., to order that section 2 of the regulations established by the Order in Council of the 13th of March, 1901, above referred to, shall be and the same is hereby amended by striking out the fee of $10 for which provision is made therein as the charge for a free miner's certificate to an individual and substituting therefor $7.50 ; and that sections 29 and 34 of the said regulations shall be, and the same are hereby amended, by substituting a charge of $10 for entry or for renewal of a placer mining claim in the place of the present charge of $15.

Then, another order of the same date, No. 475, enacts :

i

The Governor General in Council is pleased, in virtue of the provisions of clause 47 of the Dominions Lands Act, as enacted hy section 5 of the Act 55-56 Victoria, chapter 15, and of section 8 of the Yukon Territory Act, as enacted by section 3 of the Act 2 Edward VII., chapter 34, to order that Form ' N ' of the regulations for the disposal of the right to divert and use water from any stream or lake and the right of way through and entry upon any mining ground for the purpose of constructing ditches and flumes to convey such water for mining purposes in the Yukon Territory established by the Order in Council of the 3rd August, 1898, shall be, and the same is hereby rescinded, and the following form substituted therefor.

Form N is then printed, but I presume it is not necessary for me to read it.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Before the resolution is adopted, I would like to suggest to the Prime Minister that it would be advisable to have all the regulations relating to the Dominion lands and matters of that kind in the Yukon revised and put in intelligible shape, and printed, so that members of the House and others interested might be able thoroughly to understand the meaning and scope of the regulations.

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The PRIME MINISTER.

And laid before parliament at the beginning of the session-issued as a Blue-book ?

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I think so.

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The PRIME MINISTER.

I think so. I shall make that recommendation.

Resolution reported, read the first and second time, and agreed to.

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OFFER OF JUDGESHIP-POLITICAL REPORT.

LIB

Hance James Logan

Liberal

Mr. H. J. LOGAN (Cumberland).

Before the Orders of the Day are called, I desire to call the attention of the government to a paragraph in the Montreal ' Star ' of last evening. It read as follows :

Rumours that would seem strange to the un-itiated came from Ottawa this morning. It seems the Liberals have become somewhat disturbed about the apparent reaction in public sentiment. It is said, on authority that seldom errs in statements of fact that the Liberals have offered through Mr. Dansereau, a judgeship to a somewhat prominent Conservative politician in the province of Quebec, if he will carry out a programme arranged by Mr. Dansereau to create and perpetuate a split in the Conservative ranks.

I desire to ask if there is any truth in the rumour contained in the Montreal ' Star.'

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The PRIME MINISTER.

I have been in the city of Ottawa pretty constantly for eight months, and I must say that I never heard such a rumour ; nor do I believe that anybody in this House ever heard it. I do not know what may be reported in Montreal, but I am sure that this is news to every body in this House. I can tell my hon. friend (Mr. Logan) that there is no truth in the statement. No judgeship has been

offered to any body, especially to the hon. gentleman who is not named but well indicated. The whole thing is a pure fabrication.

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CON

Charles Eusèbe Casgrain

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CASGRAIN.

And there is no truth in the rumour of a split.

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ALASKA BOUNDARY ARBITRATION- CABLEGRAM FROM LORD AL-VERSTONE.

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The PRIME MINISTER.

The subject we have just discussed is another illustration that we must not always take what the newspapers tell us as gospel truth. And, on that point I may say that I have received a telegram from Lord Alverstone, Chief Justice of England :

London, October 13, 1903.

There Is not the slightest foundation for statement attributed to me in Reuter telegram from Ottawa dated 12th October, as to question in House of Comomns on that date. I have made' no communication of any kind to any diplomatic or colonial officials, or to any person respecting the case. The report is an absolute fabrication.

(Sgd.) ALVERSTONE.

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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I am sure this is what might have been expected from Lord Alverstone. I suppose the right hon. gentleman has no telegram from Mr. Ayles-worth with regard to

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The PRIME MINISTER.

No.

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RURAL MAIL DELIVERY.

October 13, 1903