One Protestant and one Roman Catholic. At Kingston, St. Vincent de Paul and Dorchester, the Protestant chaplain is of the Church of England. The Protestant chaplain at Manitoba is a Methodist, and the one at British Columbia is a Presbyterian.
That is a question I do not profess to have any special knowledge of. But I have a remedy to propose, that is, to allow each denomination in the locality where the penitentiary is situated, to send a clergyman to the penitentiary occasionally to minister to the convicts. When I proposed that amendment the last time the Bill was under consideration, it received a very cool reception, there was no desire to allow that to be done. Perhaps I ought to say this, that one of the agencies in this country to which we are most indebted for their services to the convicts is the Salvation Army. They have what they call the Prison Gate service by which they become acquainted with the prisoners that are about to be discharged, and keep in touch with them, meet them at the gates, and get employment for them. There is a large and important branch in Toronto who take charge of convicts discharged from the Kingston penitentiary, and I believe do them much good. 1 can say that that particular institution has done a very good service so far as my knowledge of their work in the penitentiaries go.
It seems to me the suggestion of the minister that a convict should be allowed the services of a minister belonging to the church to which he adhered, is a very good one. I cannot see why there can be any objection to it. I should think that almost any church might do for a convict when he goes to the penitentiary.
The minister spoke of the services rendered to convicts by the Salvation Army, and I think he spoke truly. I know something of what they have been doing in that line, and I think I would go a little further than the minister and, while recognizing the services of chaplains of other denominations, I would give a small amount to the Salvation Army to encourage them, for I believe they are doing better work than perhaps any other church along that line.
They are looking after the convicts after they come out, and that is very important, and they are trying to keep them from falling back into their old vices.
The Salvation Army have never suggested that they should receive any remuneration for any of the work they have done. The only request they ever made to me was that they should be allowed access to the convicts ; but it has never been suggested directly or indirectly that anything should be paid them for this work, in fact I do not think they have ever asked for remuneration.
The present schedule provides for a salary of $2,000 for the warden at the Manitoba penitentiary, but as a matter of fact he has been in receipt of a salary of $2,200 under the old schedule that existed previously to 1895. This provision authorizes the payment to him of the salary of which he is actually in receipt, $2,200. Everybody is aware that Colonel Irvine, the present warden, has been in the employ of the government a good many years and has done very good service indeed, and is a very competent officer.
I have just been reading over the suggestion which the hon. min-ter makes in regard to the chaplains, and it seems to me to be a very proper one. It is this :
The minister, instead of appointing a Protestant chaplain for any penitentiary, may direct that the clergymen of the different Protestant denominations represented in the community where a penitentiary is situate, shall be permitted to perform the duties of the Protestant chaplaincy in rotation, each in his turn taking a week, the assignment being under the direction of the warden, in which case the salary allowed for a Protestant chaplain shall be divided among the clergymen of the several denominations performing such duties in proportion to the time given to such duties by each.