July 28, 1903

CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

Would punching a hole through a coin deface it ?

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

Yes, because it takes away from the value of tht-coin by taking a portion of the metal from it.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

If you punch a hole in the coin, you do not take away any of the metal.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OP JUSTICE.

You take an infinitesimal part, but you take some.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

What provision is there in the Criminal Code now against that ? I cannot find any.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

Suppose a person takes some change already marked, and hands it over in change again, is that a criminal offence ?

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

In that case he must look at it before he takes it. The same argument would apply to a forged note. .

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

I would suppose the law would punish the person who defaces the coin, but not the person who innocently utters it.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

Of course, the man who innocently utters it does not

come within the meaning of the Criminal Code. The intent is in reality to reach those people who utter the coin originally for the express purpose of using it as an advertising device. In legislation, when you attempt to particularize, you generally fall -wide of the mark in view.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

As the law now stands, a person who is absolutely innocent might get into trouble through some crank-and the country is full of cranks.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

That is unfortunate.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

Yes, why not make the law meet the specific case V Surely the English language is capable of overcoming the difficulty ?

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

Legislation to meet specific cases is somewhat doubtful.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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LIB

William Manley German

Liberal

Mr. GERMAN.

It seems to me that the difficulty could be easily got over by .saying : ' Every one who utters any coin defaced for the purpose of advertising.' Then the fact of its having been issued by any firm and bearing the name of that firm, would be proof that it was issued for the purpose of advertising, and they would have to prove the contrary.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

That is the particular case we have in view and which suggested the necessity for this section. My hon. friend will agree that a coin may be defaced by having stamped on it a name or word or letter and still not be used as an advertisement. In the particular case of the Dunlop Tire Company, they put certain marks on the coin which they uttered to the public. Then when the coins are brought back to the company, they are redeemed at their face value. In this particular case, defaced coins are used specifically for the purpose of advertising, but there is no reason why, when a coin is defaced by a numeral, it should be treated differently from when it is defaced by a name or word. The section of law which applies to the case mentioned by the hon. member for Victoria (Mr. Hughes) is 475, which makes an indictable offence the circulating of gold or silver coin of less than the proper weight.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

Changing money, one accidentally gets some coins with holes through them. In sending a message to the telegraph office, they told me I had sent a coin with a hole through it, and I had to take it back. The suggestion occurred to me was the coin depreciated. I have experimented with copper. Any one who knows the nature of that metal knows that we can put a hole through it without diminishing the weight. If you punch a hole through a copper coin without reducing the weight, I cannot understand how you reduce the value.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

The presumption is that the weight is reduced.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I hold that if you were , unable to establish that the accused had taken away something you could not sustain the conviction.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

The hon. gentleman is quite right, you must establish that.

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

There is a system followed by some merchants of taking platinum and running it into coin and marking it ten cents, twenty cents and so on, and they give these out as due bills for produce taken in, is that a violation of the law ?

Topic:   CRIMINAL CODE, 1892.
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July 28, 1903