July 27, 1903

LIB

William Alfred Galliher

Liberal

Mr. GALLIHER.

That is wrong. I may state that the sub-committee had six statutory declarations before them to the contrary". One company had no connection with the other.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

It makes no difference whether the same men bought it in or not; some one bought the road with its rights and liabilities, as I understand it.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB
LIB
LIB

William Alfred Galliher

Liberal

Mr. GALLIHER.

You evidently do not understand the character of a sale under a mortgage of bonds.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

'Well, I do understand that a certain number of men bought this road in a court sale, and so far as that sale is concerned the purchasers were relieved from liability for the claims that were against the road that were not included in their claims. These people got what they bought, that is what they paid for, and that is all that is coming to them. We had no responsibility with regard to that matter, but they were not satisfied with what they bought, and they come back to this parliament and ask for something further from parliament. They ask for certain extension of time and certain extension of authority.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB
LIB

Frank Oliver

Liberal

Mr. OLIVER.

These people who bought the road come to parliament and ask certain powers and authority, beyond what they obtained by the purchase of the road. I have been a member of this parliament for some seven years and scarcely a session has gone by that there has not been a similar case in which the liens against a railroad have been maintained against the company applying to parliament. During this verv session our friends from Bona-venture "(Mr. Marcil) and from Gaspe (Mr. Lemieux) have maintained the rights of their constituents in regard to certain railroads in these counties. I am not prepared to say what was the actual result, hut I am certain that the committee upheld the contention of these hon. gentlemen. I remember some years ago when the member for Lincoln maintained a similar contention in regard to a railway in his county, and he was supported in his contention by the House. It was a perfectly fair contention

to my mind, that the labour and material which actually constructs a road should be a lien against that road, and when the opportunity occurs to enforce that lien, when legislation is before parliament, that is the time to see that justice is done. There is no manner of doubt that this road owes certain people honest money. There is no doubt that the company which under an Act of this parliament is going to own the road is given certain privileges by this parliament because of the existence of that road which the money and the labour of these men have actually constructed. It seems to me utterly unfair that these people should be allowed to have the benefit of this money and of this labour without being compelled to give value for it. We are giving them power to raise money. Then, I think the first thing we should do is to compel them to pay the money which the enterprise they have acquired actually and properly owes. As to the account which I have mentioned, a matter of $5,000, it is possibly the man's whole fortune, and it seems to me a terrible thing if people can be actually swindled as in this case. I do not care if it is done under the colour of law or under the procedure of the courts, it is robbery just the same ; the result is just the same. It seems to me that it is the privilege of parliament, if it is not its duty, to protect the rights of innocent parties who have put their money and labour into the construction of the road; and it is a privilege which I for one will certainly exercise, so far as I have the power.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLQR.

The hon. member for Yale and Cariboo (Mr. Galliher) asked the hon. member for Alberta (Mr. Oliver) to look at the Bill. That is just what I would like to do-see a copy of the Bill as it has been presented by a majority of the sub-committee.

I think in all fairness to the members of the House this Bill should be printed before we proceed further with it. There is not a member of the House who knows anything about the Bill. As I have seen it in the hands of the chairman, it grants these gentlemen more powers than they purchased. It grants them the power to change the name. .

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

William Alfred Galliher

Liberal

Mr. GALLIHER.

It would help the creditors a lot to keep the old name, wouldn't it ?

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

It would not do them anj harm. Their claims are against the Brock ville, Westport and Sault Ste. Marie Railway Company.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

William Alfred Galliher

Liberal

Mr. GALLIHER.

How will the change of name affect them ?

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

I do not know whether it will or not ; but there is an action pend Ing against that company. Then the lion member for Yale and Cariboo says that the parties who bought the road are not the bondholders. How does he know that ?

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

William Alfred Galliher

Liberal

Mr. GALLIHER.

Not because I have written statements from men, but because I have statutory declarations which mean something, whereas letters are matters which anybody can write.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

If the hon. gentleman has them, will he produce them ?

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB

William Alfred Galliher

Liberal

Mr. GALLIHER.

They were before the sub-committee.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

I attended every meeting of the sub-committee and I never heard of them. If my hon. friend has them, let them be read, so that they will be placed in ' Hau-sard,' where we can see them.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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LIB
CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

Will my hon. friend send one of them over to me ? I believe the evidence is just as strong that the investment company who took the assignment from Mr. Hervey subject to all these claims are Interested in the purchase of the road. They handed the bonds over to the parties at a nominal price, and these parties appeared in their own names and persons, and made the purchase, and paid in the bonds which they held as the purchase money, thereby barring any other person from purchasing unless he came forward with a sufficient amount of money to pay the bonds in full. I am satisfied ini my own mind, and it was stated by the lawyers who appeared before the sub-committee, Messrs. Hutcheson and Fisher and Mr. Lewis, thatl these parties purchased for the investment company.

I will produce Mr. Hervey's affidavit corroborating the letter he wrote, and Mr. Smith's affidavit corroborating his statement, if the committee will allow me a couple of days' time to get them. If my hon. friend will produce the affidavits he speaks of, I will produce affidavits in a short time contradicting them.

Topic:   BROCKVILLE AND SAULT STE MARIE RAILWAY COMPANY.
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July 27, 1903