June 25, 1903

LIB
CON
LIB

Aaron Abel Wright

Liberal

Mr. WRIGHT.

Yes, I have made more than you ever saw. The fact of the matter is that no creamery is carried on with a smaller number than fifty cows. There is no money in it. The creamery butter is the butter that is exported and not the dairy butter. The dairy butter is very largely sold in the locality in which it is made. In fact in the rural districts it is almost impossible for the farmers to get butter to supply home consumption. Where cheese factories are numerous they have

scarcely butter enough to supply the home demand. This butter therefore does not come into competition with creamery butter. The manufacturer of creamery butter has his own brand and he labels his butter by the name of the factory so that if his butter; is really good, he has the reputation of producing a first class article and he sells his butter at a higher price. If you reduce the number below ' fifty ' it would open the door for every one who thought that they had a fancy article to_ try and label it as creamery butter. No" good would come from reducing the number below fifty.

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CON

Matthew Henry Cochrane

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hr. COCHRANE.

The Minister of Agriculture must realize that it is not the number of cows that makes the quality of the butter so much as the process by which the butter is made. There is no argument In the contention of the hon. member for Renfrew (Hr. Wright), who says that it would not pay to run a creamery with less than 200 cows. I admit that, because in the running of a creamery you have to hire all the labour whereas a farmer who has twenty-five or thirty cows utilizes the labour of his family, and he can produce just as good butter as creamery butter if he makes it under the same process. In my own locality we have a factory and when it is running on cheese the milk is made into cheese, and as soon as the factory closes the cream goes to the creamery. How could any cream be in as good condition after it is drawn six or seven miles to the creamery, as it would be if the farmer made his own milk into butter by the creamery process in his own dairy ? This very fact should show the minister or anybody else that cream that is taken six or seven miles and churned in cans on the journey cannot be in as good condition as the milk that is made by the same process on your own farm. When the Experimental Farm was first established and creamery butter was first made there, they never had fifty cows on that farm, and yet I do not think that the Minister of Agriculture would want his butter branded as inferior to creamery butter although he did not have fifty cows. I would say to my hon. friend from Renfrew (Mr. Wright) with his boasted argument that he has made more butter than ever I have seen, that I did not know what made him such a sleek looking man ; it is the amount of grease he handles. I want him to be careful in making his butter that some of his whiskers do not fall into it.

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LIB

Aaron Abel Wright

Liberal

Mr. WRIGHT.

The hon. gentleman (Mr. Cochrane) does not seem to know there are creameries which manufacture butter from milk. Every creamery' does not gather in the cream and manufacture the butter from that, but there are a large number of creameries that take the milk and manufacture it into first class butter. It is the creamery butter that brings the highest price. It is

the creamery butter made in the Renfrew creamery that the hon. gentleman (Mr. Cochrane) eats in the restaurant and finer butter you cannot find anywhere. It is the creamery butter made in the Renfrew creamery that His Royal Highness ate on the train going to Vancouver, and better butter he could not eat.

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?

Herbert John Mackie

Mr. MACICIE.

Do you make butter out of skim milk ?

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LIB

Aaron Abel Wright

Liberal

Mr. WRIGHT.

No, we do not make butter out of skim milk, or otherwise I would not be so sleek.

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CON

George Taylor (Chief Opposition Whip; Whip of the Conservative Party (1867-1942))

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. TAYLOR.

The fourth section of the Bill, which refers to the percentage of water in butter, applies to all butter, whether made in a creamery or in a dairy. I think that should be amended so as to apply only to creamery or dairy butter where there are over fifty cows.

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IND

Jabel Robinson

Independent

Mr. ROBINSON (West Elgin).

If butter made in a dairy is made by the same process as butter made in a creamery,, it seems to me it should be called creamery butter. I happen to know where there are farmers' wives and daughters who make butter which is just as palatable and which commands as high a price as any creamery butter, and it seems to me that farmers who have twenty or twenty-five cows, and who make a first-class sample of dairy butter, should not be handicapped because they have not fifty cows as the Bill calls for. They should have the privilege of calling it creamery butter if they have the proper facilities for making it. I think the number of cows for creamery butter should be reduced to twenty-five.

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LIB

William Scott Maclaren

Liberal

Mr. MacLAREN.

I agree with what the hon. .member for West Elgin (Mr. Robinson) has said. I think it is right that butter which is not made by the latest process should be called dairy butter; but, if a farmer has twenty or twenty-five cows and uses cream separators in making butter, I think be should be allowed to call it creamery butter. In my section of the country that is generally the case. I would like the hon. minister to explain to the House how this process butter is made. In the United States, while oleomargarine and but-terine are heavily taxed, there is only a small tax on process butter. I think the House should understand all about it.

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The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

I would ask the hon. gentleman to leave that aside until we decide upon the number of cows for a creamery. What I said a few minutes ago in reply to the hon. member for Halton (Mr. Henderson) covers the point raised by the hon. member for West Elgin (Mr. Robinson). Nobody knows better than I do that a number of private dairies make first-class butter, as good as creamery butter. At the same time, the market reports show that creamery butter commands a price which dairy butter does not.

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Tbe MINISTER OF FINANCE.

I move that the committee rise, report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-day. There is an intimation that an announcement is to he made to the House from the Senate.

Progress reported.

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ROYAL ASSENT.


A Message was delivered by the Gentleman Usher of the Black Rod, as follows : His Lordship the Chief Justice' of Canada, Deputy Governor, desires the immediate attention of your honourable House in the Chamber of the honourable the Seriate. Accordingly, Mr. Speaker, with the House, went up to the Senate Chamber. And having returned. Mr. Speaker informed the House that His Lordship the Deputy Governor had been pleased to give, in His Majesty's name, the royal assent to the following Bills : An Act to amend chapter 8 of the statutes of 1900, authorizing the granting of railway subsidies. An Act to amend the Civil Service Superannuation Act. An Act to amend the Act respecting the publication of the statutes. An Act to amend the Act relating to the Custody of Juvenile Offenders in the province of New Brunswick. An Act to amend the Expropriation Act. An Act respecting the Kootenay Central Railway Company. An Act respecting the Canadian Pacific Railway Company. An Act respecting the Quebec and New Brunswick Railway Company. > An Act respecting the British Columbia Southern Railway Company. An Act respecting the Canada National Railway and Transport Company. An Act to amend the Yukon Territory Act. An Act for the relief of William Francis Schooley. An Act respecting the Huron and Ontario Railway Company. An Act respecting the Niagara Grand Island Bridge Company. An Act respecting the Ottawa, Northern and Western Railway Company. An Act to correct a clerical error in the Act to incorporate the Edmonton and Slave Lake Railway Company. An Act to incorporate the Quebec, Saguenay and Gulf of St. Lawrence Railway Company. An Act to incorporate the Coast Yukon Railway Company. An Act to incorporate the Kootenay, Cariboo and Pacific Railway Company. An Act to incorporate the Joliette and Lake Manuan Colonization Railway Company. An Act respecting the Great North-west Central Railway Company. An Act respecting the Grand Trunk Railway Company of Canada.


LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Hon. Mr. FISHER.

An Act further to amend the Dominion Controverted Elections Act.

An Act to amend the Militia Pension Act, 1901.

An Act respecting the Winnipeg Western Land Corporation, Limited.

An Act respecting the Ontario and Qu'Appelle Land Company, Limited.

An Act respecting the Mutual Life Assurance Company of Canada.

An Act respecting the Bank of Montreal.

An Act to incorporate the Shipping Federation of Canada.

An Act respecting the Royal Trust Company.

An Act to amend the Dominion Elections Act, 1900.

An Act respecting the Atlantic, Quebec ajjd Western Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Hudson'3 Bay and Pacific Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the PSre Marquette International Bridge Company.

An Act to incorporate the Regina and Hudson's Bay Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Nipissing and James Bay Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the Macleod, Cardston and Montana Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Lindsay, Bobcaygeon and Pontypool Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Edmonton-Yukon and Pacific Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Ottawa Electric Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the Nipissing and Pen-tiac Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Calgary and Edmonton Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Canadian Northern Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Alberta Railway amj, Coal Company.

An Act respecting the Hamilton and Lake Erie Power Company, and to change its name to ' The Jordan Light, Heat and Power Company.'

An Act respecting the Mexican Light and Power Company, Limited.

An Act respecting the Lake Erie and Detroit River Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Canada North-west Land Company (Limited).

An Act respecting the Canada Permanent and Western Canada Mortgage Corporation, and to change its name to ' The Canada Permanent Mortgage Corporation.'

An Act respecting the Eastern Townships Bank.

An Act to incorporate the Sault St. Louis Light and Power Company.

An Act to incorporate the Bank of Winnipeg.

An Act respecting the Dominion Burglary Guarantee Company, Limited, and to change its name to ' The Dominion Guarantee Company, Limited.'

An Act to incorporate the Empire Accident and Surety Company.

An Act respecting the Crown Bank of Canada.

An Act respecting certain trust funds of the Diocese of Moosonee.

An Act respecting the Desjardins Canal.

An Act to amend the Public Works Act.

An Act to amend the Electric Light Inspection Act.

An Act respecting the Niagara-Welland Power Company, Limited, and to change its name to ' The Niagara-Welland Power Company.'

An Act respecting the Canada Atlantic Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the North-west Coal and Coke Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Alberta Central Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the Erie Ontario Power Company.

An Act to incorporate the Canadian Industrial Corporation, Limited.

An Act to amend the Weights and Measures Act.

An Act to incorporate the Hudson's Bay and Occidental Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the City and County Bank of Canada.

An Act to incorporate the Northern Bank.

An Act to incorporate the Pacific Bank of Canada.

An Act to incorporate the Richmond and Drummond Fire Insurance Company.

An Act respecting the United Empire Life Insurance Company.

An Act to confer on the Commissioner of Patents certain powers for the relief of the Standard Car Truck Company.

An Act to confer on the Commissioner of Patents certain powers for the relief of the International Railway Appliance Company.

An Act to amend the Inland Revenue Act.

An Act respecting the Canadian Order of the Woodmen of the World.

An Act to incorporate the Federal Oil Company.

An Act respecting the Mutual Fire Insurance Company of the City of Montreal, and to change its name to * The Montreal-Canada Fire Insurance Company.'

An Act for the relief of William Allen.

An Act for the relief of James Reid Steele,

An Act to amend the Criminal Code, 1892.

An Act respecting the Canadian North-west Irrigation Company.

An Act respecting the Canadian Steel Company.

An Act to incorporate the Sterling Bank of Canada.

An Act to incorporate the Huron, Erie and Buffalo Company.

An Act respecting the St. Mary's River Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the Cardiff Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Interprovincial and James Bay Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Klondike Mines Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the Hamilton, Galt and Berlin Railway Company.

An Act respecting the Elgin and Havelock Railway Company.

An Act to incorporate the Consolidated Trusts Corporation.

An Act respecting the Good Shepherd Reformatory in the City of St. John, New Brunswick.

An Act for granting to His Majesty certain sums of money for the public service of the financial year ending the 30th June. 1903.

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ADULTERATION OF BUTTER.


House again in committee on Bill (No. 207) to prohibit the importation, manufacture or sale of adulterated, process or renovated butter, oleomargarine, butterine. or other substitutes for butter ; and to prevent the improper marking of butter.-The Minister of Agriculture.


CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I understand that we are on section 3 subsection A. I move as amendment to that:

' Creamery butter ' means "butter made by the ordinary creamery process, including the separation of the cream from the milk when fresh by the cream separator.

It seems to me that this is really the origin of creamery butter-the use of the cream separator. Whether there are many cows or few, if the butter is made upon the same principle and by essentially the same methods as the creamery uses, it ought not to be stamped with a name indicative of inferiority. This will affect a great many farmers who use the modern methods of making butter, including the use of the cream separator. Having ten, fifteen or twenty cows, they use the creamery appliances and the creamery methods. They send their sons and daughters to the Experimental Farm to receive instructions in making butter ; and these young people come home and, when they engage in making butter on the farm, they follow the same lines as are followed in the creamery, have their dairies arranged in the same way and produce an article often as good as the creamery butter. They ought not to be compelled to call their butter by a name which will mark it as inferior to creamery butter and so reduce it in value by from two to four cents a pound.

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CON

Ernest D'Israeli Smith

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SMITH (Wentworth).

I was going to move an amendment on exactly the same lines as that of the hon. member for East Grey (Mr. Sproule). As his covers the ground so well, I shall not present mine. It seems to me that creamery butter is simply butter made from cream separated from the milk while it is sweet and manufactured at once into butter by the process followed in large factories. A definition of it such as the hon. member for East Grey has given seems to me far better than a definition based upon the number of cows kept. It would not matter if a man had only five cows, so long as the butter was made after the process approved of being the best The

definition of ' creamery,' it seems to me, ought to be one which would indicate the manufacture, not necessarily the number of cows that are kept.

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IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. MACLEAN.

I do not see that the amendment moved by the hon. member tor East Grey (Mr. Sproule) and supported by the hon. member for Wentworth (Mr. Smith) quite meets the case. These hon. gentlemen say that the process is the same as the creamery process, but it is not quite the same. The creamery is a large institution with everything up-to-date. It is distinct from a smaller concern, even if it be of the same kind, where they have not the some appliances and facilities. The process may be the same, but they have not the same facilities for carrying it out. Now, these creameries have succeeded the old dairy system, they have come out from the old style dairy and introduced this new system called the creamery system. By reason of tills improved system, they have increased the price of butter, and are in a position to pay the farmers more for their cream. If so much good has come out of this process, as X believe it lias, we ought to preserve all there is of good in it, and should be careful about allowing those who are in the old style dairy business to work under it. If the creamery people have gone out and made a superior brand, why should they not have the benefit of it? The farmers cannot complain. They have always called their butter dairy butter, and the mere use of the separator on a farm does not make a dairy into a creamer^, to my mind. The definition of the hon. minister is not a systematic definition, but I would prefer it to that proposed by the hon. member for East Grey.

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June 25, 1903