June 17, 1903

TRANSPORTATION AND TREADGOLD COMMISSIONS.

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Before the Orders of the Day are called, I would like to ask my right hon. friend (Rt. Hon. Sir Wilfrid Laurier) if he can give any information with regard to the two commissions I mentioned yesterday ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   TRANSPORTATION AND TREADGOLD COMMISSIONS.
Permalink
?

The PRIME MINISTER.

I am sorry to say, not to-day. At an early day.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   TRANSPORTATION AND TREADGOLD COMMISSIONS.
Permalink

GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.


Bill (No. 199) respecting the Good Shepherd Reformatory in the city of St. John, New Brunswick, was read the second time, and House went into committee thereon. On section 1,


CON

Edward Frederick Clarke

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARKE.

What is the necessity for passing this Bill ? Are there no penal institutions maintained by the province of New Brunswick for the incarceration of female prisoners ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE (lion. Charles Fitzpatrick).

It is deemed desirable by the Attorney General of New Brunswick that this legislation should he had. I would remind the hon. gentleman (Mr. Clarke) that there is in the province of Ontario such an institution as the Mercer Reformatory. The principle of this Bill is absolutely the same as that applicable to the Mercer Reformatory. The object is to make special provision for the care of female prisoners who ordinarily would be sent to prison, but this provides that, instead of being detained in the ordinary jail, they may be sent to this institution. This is applicable to Roman Catholics only, and to the city and county of St. John only.

Jit-. CLARKE. But the Mercer Reformatory is a public institution maintained by the province. Is this a public institution ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

In what respect does my hon. friend (Mr. Clarke) mean ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
CON

Edward Frederick Clarke

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. CLARKE.

The Mercer Reformatory in the province of Ontario is an institution under the administration of the provincial government of the province. I want to know if there is any difference between that and the institution referred to in this Bill. I am simply making these inquiries for the sake of information.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

So far as we are concerned, we have no control over

the jails in the provinces. So long as the Attorney General in the province is satisfied with the regulations of this institution, I do not think we are called upon to interfere. The province may designate an institution of this sort to which prisoners may be sent. It is for the Attorney General of the province to exercise such control as he deems proper.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

But the Mercer Reformatory is a public institution to which prisoners of all denominations are sent. If this government has no right to exercise control in such a matter why should we be asked to pass this Bill ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

We have no control over the institution, but we have control over the prisoners. The ordinary course is to send them to the ordinary prisons of the province. But if the provinces desire to have a particular class of criminals, sent to a particular institution, it is proper that we should give effect to that desire.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

If it is proper to send criminals of a certain faith to a certain institution for punishment, there must he some reason why they are sent there. Is the punishment more severe ? Is the discipline more strict ? Is the treatment more kindly, and likely to make them better people when the term is up ? If so, then why not send Protestants there also ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
LIB

Benjamin Russell

Liberal

Mr. RUSSELL.

They do send Protestant children to similar institutions.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

I would like to know if this House has ever legislated to send Protestants to Protestant institutions.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
LIB

Benjamin Russell

Liberal

Mr. RUSSELL.

They do in Nova Scotia, I am pretty sure.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

The hon. and learned doctor should be very sure before making a statement.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
LIB

Benjamin Russell

Liberal

Mr. RUSSELL.

I do not agree to that. I think every member is bound to throw all the light he can on any question that is discussed. I state my belief, and I am practically certain of it, that there is legislation which enables stipendiary magistrates, instead of sending boys to be herded with criminals and to acquire confirmed criminal habits, to send them to the Protestant Industrial School, where they are taught a trade, and the Catholic boys can be sent to the St. Patrick's Home with the same object.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
L-C

Samuel Hughes

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HUGHES (Victoria).

Then I want to know why some such legislation is not brought in for Protestant criminals as well ?

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF JUSTICE.

If Protestants desire such legislation as this there will not be the slightest objection. There is no desire on the part of this government to distinguish between people of different religions. Such questions never originate here.

Topic:   QUESTIONS.
Subtopic:   GOOD SHEPHERD REFORMATORY, ST.
Sub-subtopic:   JOHN, NEW BRUNSWICK.
Permalink

June 17, 1903