March 18, 1903

CON

Uriah Wilson

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WILSON.

How old was he ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Thirty-five or forty-he went into the chartered

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
LIB

William Stevens Fielding (Minister of Finance and Receiver General)

Liberal

Hon. Mr. FIELDING.

bank service as a boy. Under the Civil Service Act be could not be appointed for lie bad passed tbe age allowed by that Act. But, it will be admitted, that a man with that experience would be admirably qualified for tbe appointment. That gentleman was appointed, but be has since retired because be found better employment outside. I may wish to renew that same class of appointment, and if I could find a gentleman who bad bad many years experience in a chartered bank that fact of itself would be ample guarantee of bis qualification. But such a vote as this would be necessary to enable me to employ him. I assure the House that it is not my desire, except in some special case, to appoint anybody who has not passed the civil service examination. I value tbe examination, and my desire is to adhere to it very closely. If tbe House is good enough to allow me to have tbe vote in the form in which it is put here, as it did once before, the vote will be administered in the same spirit, and, I am confident with the same result.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

This is practically a repeal of the Civil Service Act.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

As respects this department and temporarily. My hon. friend was not present when I began my explanation-

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

But I am sure I have heard some things as good in previous years, because they are the same every year.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

No, I have not had this every year.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I should be glad to hear something new.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

I am sure my hon. friend (Mr. Borden, Halifax) needs it.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

On this point I certainly do. For this thing goes on year after year in the same way.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

No, not in my department.

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax) Why, we have it in every department every year. The hon. gentleman knows it. Take up the estimates any year during the past five or six years, and you see in the votes for practically every department this same provision,

* Notwithstanding anything in the Civil Service Act.' I have brought this to the attention of the government time and time again. It is a most irregular proceeding. The effect of it is that one branch of the legislature repeals an Act of Parliament. For the Senate cannot deal with this provision in the estimates-they must either reject or accept them in their entirety. And so, year after year this branch of the legislature repeals the Civil Service Act. Surely 8

my hon. friend the Minister of Finance can devise some better system. There may be something very new or valuable in the first part of his explanation which I missed. I shall read it with a great deal of care. I must say that I have great doubt that I shall find in it sufficient reason for following in this case the example of other years. I wish to enter my protest against this provision, subject to having my opinion altered by reading what my hon. friend has said.

Civil government-Department of Finance and Treasury Board-contingencies notwithstanding anything in the Civil Service Act, $8,510.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Well, why does tliis also apply to contingencies ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

That point I did not explain, and my hon. friend has not missed anything with regard to it. Temporary clerks and messengers are paid out of this contingent fund. They do not go on the ordinary civil service list. There are two young ladies who have hitherto been employed in another branch of the service who are to be employed in the Department of Finance as stenographers. Their salaries are something less than $900. That is the chief item in this vote.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Why must they be removed from the operation of the Civil Service Act ? Why do we need to repeal the Civil Service Act with regard to them. I may be very dense but I confess I do not understand that point so far.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

The necessity for this provision here arises from the case of the two messengers to whom I referred who have not civil service certificates. I do not think that it is so important in the case of a messenger as it is in the case of a clerk, and these men are thoroughly capable messengers. The provision is not for the young ladies, both of whom have certificates.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

And, so far as the young ladies are concerned the Civil Service Act may remain ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

Yes, this covers the case of two messengers who have passed the age limit provided for by the Civil Service Act. They have been in the department for a number of years and are eminently fitted for the position.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Then, I do not see why the hon. gentleman introduced the young ladies at all.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

I did not wish to introduce the young ladies to my hon. friend (Mr. Borden, Halifax).

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I am obliged to my hon. friend, but I think that after being in his department they can stand almost anything.

Topic:   SUPPLY-GOVERNMENT BUSINESS.
Subtopic:   INQUIRY FOR RETURN.
Permalink

March 18, 1903