Mr. JAMES J.

HUGHES (King's, P.E.I.) Before that motion is carried, I desire to call the attention of the government, the House and the country to the intolerable condition of things that exists in relation to the telegraphic communication between Prince Edward Island and the mainland. I had intended to bring this subject up on the third reading of the Bill of the Minister of Justice dealing with telegraphs and telephones, but as it has been decided to leave that Bill over until next year, I am obliged to bring it up in this way and now. I have said, Mr. Speaker, that the position is intolerable ; and I think I have only to mention the bald facts of the case to have every hon. member in this House agree with me that that language is not one whit too strong.

The Anglo-American Company, which has its head office in London, is the only telegraph company doing business in Prince Edward Island, and is the only company that has a cable connecting the island with the mainland. That company closes its offices on Prince Edward Island at eight o'clock in SO

the afternoon, and does not open them again until eight or nine o'clock on the following day. That is a very great hardship not only to the people of Prince Edward Island but to all others who may have to do business with them. It was found to be a very great hardship during the early stages of the South African war when, no matter how important the message might be coming to Sackville, N.B., only a short distance away, if it came after eight o'clock in the afternoon It did not reach the island until after eight o'clock the following morning. Even with so many relatives and friends of young men engaged in that war anxious for news concerning them and with all the people desirous of learning the progress of events, yet, no matter how important these messages might be, they could not reach the island until the following day; they would not be printed in the morning-papers and so would not reach the country until twenty-four hours after the news had reached Sackville. This is the age of progress, this is the twentieth century. Yet to-day we have one whole province of this Dominion entirely shut off! from telegraphic communications with the outside world for twelve hours out of the twenty-four. '

But that is not the whole trouble. We on the Island are obliged to pay twice as high for messages as those on the mainland. This is a serious drawback to business men in Prince Edward Island and also to those who wish to do business with Prince Edward Island. I have here a letter from a business firm in Charlottetown, which refers to this point:

We find that our telegraph bill for November was $106.44, and if our rates were the same as on the mainland, we could get the work done for about one-half the amount, which would be a very material saving. But this does not, by any means measure our loss. You can quite understand that our customers, say at Sydney, would not think of wiring us for supplies as it would cost them twice as much to get information as to prices, &c., from Charlottetown as from Halifax or St. John. This is where the real loss comes in. Business that we should get passes us every day owing to the extra expense in wiring. In buying and selling goods, at least two or three messages must pass between the buyer and seller. First, an inquiry as to price, second an offer, third a counteroffer, and Anally a telegram to close the transaction. So it will be easily seen that the excessive telegraph rates become a serious tax on our business, and drive business away from us as well.

But even that is not the whole matter. This cable was laid many years ago, at a time when the making and laying of cables was not as well understood as it is now. I understand that that cable never was very strong, and it is liable to break at any time and leave us without telegraphic communication altogether. As a matter of fact, it did part last fall and was not repaired for about three weeks. If it should break during the late

autumn it could not be repaired until the following summer. But, even while the cable was broken, if any person went to the Anglo-American Company to send a message across the Straits to have it repeated to some point on the mainland, though the sending of it cost the company only two cents, and the answer might not come for several days, yet they charged the old rates that they were charging when they sent the messages across on the cable. Many tourists come to Prince Edward Island, especially from the United States, and they are simply astonished to find that they cannot communicate with their friends for twelve hours out of the twenty-four. And we as a people are humiliated that such a state of things should exist throughout a whole province of this Dominion. As I say, this is a matter that affects all the maritime provinces and all Canada, and I am glad to find that the people of Canada generally do not take a narrow view of the question. Let me read a resolution passed by the Maritime Board of Trade on this matter.

I believe that this resolution was sent to the government:

A subject brought to the attention of this Board is ' improved telegraphic communication .between Prince Edward Island and the mainland.' The facts of the case are, we believe, well understood by the government, and especially, by one member, Sir L. H. Davies. As briefly put before the board at its last meeting, they are substantially these, that :

' Telegrams could only be sent to and from the Island between nine a.m. and one p.m. and between two and eight p.m. The Anglo-American Company, though it has only one hundred miles of wire, controls the situation. A telegram to Boston costs $1-50 cents to Sackville, and 50 cents to Boston. Pressure should be brought to bear upon the company, whose head office is in London, to secure a better service. They get a subsidy of $2,000 a year. The island papers cannot get the press dispatches at night. There would not be so much objection to slightly higher rates than those on the mainland if it were possible to get messages and press dispatches through at any,time, or at least up to midnight. There are two steamers now every week from Boston to Charlottetown with crowds of tourists who stand amazed that they cannot send a message home, between eight p.m. and nine a.m.

We earnestly hope that this will receive that careful attention which its merits most certainly demand.

(Signed) M. G. DeWOLPE, President.

Mr. MACLEAN.

Mr. TAYLOR.

What capital had they invested ?

Mr. HUGHES (P.E.I.) I do not know. I presume that interest was charged on the capital before they declared a net profit. I think that is the way nearly all the companies in the old country make up their profits, as they are very conservative in giving profits. As I said before, I do not think any adequate remedy will be found until the government take over the telegraph service of Canada. Now, there are six telegraph systems in Canada. If there were only one or two, the service might be very good. Now, in what condition would the post office service be if it. was operated by six companies 1 Here is what Mr. Pope, manager of the Great North Western, says in regard to that matter :

The telegraphs in Eastern Canada are owned by six separate organizations.

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1. The government lines operating in Quebec and New Brunswick;

2. The Western Union Telegraph Company in New Erunswick and1 Nova Scotia ;

3. The Anglo American Telegraph Company in Prince Edward Island ;

4. The Great North-western Telegraph Company in Ontario, Quebec and New Brunswick;

5. The Montreal Telegraph Company, and

6. The Dominion Telegraph Company, operated by the Great North-western Telegraph Company.

The tariff for ten words from Ottawa to stations on government lines varies from 40 cents to 75 cents, to Western Union stations, 30 cents, to Prince Edward Island, 50 cents, to Great Ncrth Western stations, 25 cents, and the rates between the various systems run as high as $1.25.

It is proposed that the Great North-western Company operating the largest system, should acquire the lines of the Western Union Company and the Anglo-American Company, and should also operate the government system, and establish a uniform 25 cent rate over the whole territory.

This could be effected not only without actual cost to the country, but in a way that would ensure a large annual saving to the government, and would satisfy all interests concerned. The Great North-western Company now pay a rental in the shape of dividend to the Montreal and Dominion companies aggregating $238,000 per annum.

If the government would exercise the right to purchase the telegraph lines of these two companies which is given to them by chapter 132 of the consolidated statutes, paying the present market price of the companies stock, the purchase could be made for $5,000,000. The Great North-western Company would continue to operate (he lines, and would pay the government the interest on the above amount at two and a half per cent, and this charge being the first lien on the whole system, the payment would be assured.

The saving effected on the fixed charges would compensate the company for reducing the rates, and assuming the cost of operating the government lines.

The company would be restricted to a seven per cent dividend on its own capital, any earnings in excess would be used to extend the1 system, or to lower the rates.

The government, having the necessary facilities, would continue to maintain the cables in the gulf, but would be relieved from all other expenses in connection with their lines, thus saving between $20,000 and $25,000 annually on their present and prospective outlay.

The advantage of such a sweeping reduction would be felt and appreciated everywhere, but more especially in the poorer districts on which, under the present system, the high rates bear cruelly.

The actual ownership by the government of such a large portion of the telegraph system would make the acquisition of all the telegraphs an easier task, if it was ever decided to adopt F.uch a policy.

That would be another way out of the difficulty, if the government, in their wisdom could see fit to pursue it. But, I do not know whether that matter could be taken up immediately or not. As I have spoken of the government ownership of the telegraph system of the country, as this matter has been before the House on previous occasions and the various aspects of it have

I have to assure my hon. friends that the government will give their best consideration to the important point which has been raised. It is not the first time that I have heard complaints about the Anglo-American company. The hon. gentlemen who have spoken are right in saying that we have-some means of reaching them. Several members of the government will be in England in a short time and if circumstances permit, I expect to go there myself. I will try to have a short and interesting interview with these gentlemen of the Anglo-American Company. The government already possesses a pretty large system of telegraphs. I may say that it has not been built under what might be called businesslike circumstances, because we have been building telegraph lines where ordinary

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telegraph companies would not build them because they would not pay. The telegraph system of the government has so far been built to accommodate trade and navigation. I am just now engaged in giving attention to some considerable extensions of our lines in order to make them pay if possible, and in order at any rate to give more accommodation to the public. If the Anglo-American Company does not want to listen to reason I feel confident that we are able to bring them to book. The government system might very well be extended-it wont cost $1,000,000. Moreover, we have some wireless telegraphy, especially Mr. Marconi's system, and with Mr. Marconi we have already made some arrangements. With all these weapons in hand, I repeat that I feel confident that we can bring the Anglo-American Company to sense and reason. It is not necessary to say more. Under some circumstances action is better than any amount of speeches.

Mr. A. C. BELL (Pictou).

I wish to say a few words about a matter of very great importance to the House and the country. It is in reference to the subject of our blue-books. The value of official documents issued by the government has been very seriously attacked, and some hon. gentlemen have gone so far as to express their sympathy and their sorrow at discovering that gentlemen on this side of the House should place any reliance or should base any argument upon statements to be found in a certain blue-book issued by the present government. Attention was called to the fact that the examples quoted from the Year-book did not exactly bear out all the strictures that were made upon that publication. Later on, a gentleman on the other side of the House called attention to the fact that while confirmation of , certain figures cited by him could not be found in the Year-book for 1900-that being in my opinion the Year-book that was in the first place in question and under attack, because I have no doubt it was the Year-book of that year to which the gentleman on this side referred-that hon. gentleman in some subsequent remarks made by him, repelling the criticism made from this side of the House, rested his case upon the fact that he was using the Year-book, not of 1900, but the Year-book of 1S99.

Mr. SPEAKER.

I am afraid the hon. member is referring to a previous debate.

Mr. BELL.

If possible, I will endeavour to avoid doing so; but it is a little difficult, and in a sense it is a personal explanation that I am making.

Mr. SPEAKER.

At the same time, in making a personal explanation, the hon. gentleman should be very cautious not to

Hon. Mr. TARTE.

bring in a question which has been the subject of a past debate.

Mr. BELL.

I am not referring to a past debate. I am speaking in a very general way of statements which have been made. The Year-book of 1889 having been brought into question, I find that there is a discrepancy between the figures used in this House and those given in the copy of the Yearbook of 1889, which I have been able to put my hands upon-not very important, perhaps, but sufficiently divergent to justify a certain amount of inquiry, and to afford, I think, legitimate ground for questioning the claim for extreme accuracy, which is based on the use of these figures. Now, I do not propose to go into this matter at any length, further than to say that I cannot find confirmation for the position taken by the hon. Minister of Trade and Commerce, even in the Year-book of 1889.

Mr. SPEAKER.

The hon. gentleman is certainly referring to a previous debate. He is answering a matter brought up by an hon. member of this House some time ago, and that is certainly out of order.

Mr. BELL.

I am very sorry, indeed, Mr. Speaker, if it is impossible for me to refer to this matter without violating the rules of the House, because I can assure you that I have no desire to be out of order. I am endeavouring to furnish satisfaction to a very hon. gentleman on the other side of the House, and I hope the House will pardon me in this matter.

Mr. SPEAKER.

I am sure the hon. gentleman does not desire to violate the rules of the House; but he must recognize that he is referring to a question which was the subject of a previous debate, and I am calling his attention to the fact that this is irregular.

Mr. BELL.

In that case, Mr. Speaker, 1 shall have to abandon my purpose to throw further light on this subject. I will simply say, if permitted, that I think there was no foundation for any of the strictures addressed to myself, that a charge of stujjid-ity which was made against me with extreme good taste by an hon. gentleman .on the other side of the House, I think I could answer with satisfaction to the House, and that I think it would be impossible for the hon. gentleman to find in my speech any word which could justify his expressions. I did not charge any hon. member of this House with intentionally falsifying figures. I simply called attention in a most courteous manner to the fact that there were discrepancies, and expressed my desire that they should be explained; and 1 regret very much that I should have been treated in the harsh and unpleasant manner I was, and should have been made the subject of a charge, which, if the rules of the House permitted, I could effectively repel. Under your ruling, Mr. Speaker, I will make no further remarks.

Mr. W. F. MACLEAN (East York).

They said they did not want it.