May 7, 1901

CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BOUDEN (Halifax).

My hon. friend might be correct in what he understands about it, but I would not think that the language of the declaration is such as should have been used by a gentleman in Mr. King's position. It would be perfectlv competent for Mr. King to have stated in his declaration : I did not do such a thing ;

I did not perform such au act; I did noc make such a visit. Instead of doing that he has seen fit tq present to the House- and his minister has seen fit to read to the House-a statement in which the words of my hon. friend from Jacques Cartier are characterized over and over again in separate paragraphs of this affidavit as untrue and as false.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OP MARINE AND FISHERIES.

The information given by the hon. gentleman.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

That is not the way in which it is expressed. My hon. friend has his own opinion about it,

I have mine, to which I adhere ; and I think it would have been better, in the interest of Mr. King himself

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

My hon. friend will allow me one moment ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

My hon. friend will allow me to finish the sentence first.

It would have been better for my hon. friend the acting Postmaster General to have read this affidavit or declaration over before it was submitted to the House, and to have suggested to the Deputy Minister of Labour that the same effect could have been given to the declaration if it had been couched in somewhat different terms.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OP MARINE AND FISHERIES.

I may have misunderstood the declaration or affidavit when it was read ; but if I correctly understood the debate and the reading of the affidavit, it amounted to this. My hon. friend from Jacques Cartier made certain statements in the House-not statements within his own knowledge ; he did not profess to have personal knowledge of them. He stated explicitly that he was making statements of facts which had been imparted to him by those who he thought were reliable parties. The affidavit, as I understood it, simply stated that those statements which the hon. member had made to the House were untrue. That in no way impeaches the veracity of the hon. member for Jacques Cartier. It merely states that the information which he gave to the House was incorrect and untrue.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I trust that the declaration may bear the meaning which the hon. Minister of Marine and Fisheries puts upon it. I did not so understand it, nop did the acting Postmaster General apparently, for he agreed with me that it would have been better if the declaration had been couched in somewhat less offensive terms. To apply the terms untrue and false to statements made by an hon. member of this House-terms which are not permitted to members-does not, in my opinion, tend to elevate the tone of this House.

Now, with respect to the affair at Valley-field, I have very few words to say. It does seem unfortunate that a strike should have been brought about at that particular juncture by the particular means apparently used for that purpose. It does not appear that any one was particularly dissatisfied or that a strike was imminent, or that any one was very much troubled when this gentleman, Mr. Bertrand, saw fit to invoke the aid of the Deputy Minister of Labour. With respect to this Mr. Bertrand, I would like to ask my right hon. friend the leader of the House why he does not apply to him a doctrine which he laid down in this House in 1896 ? It has been stated in a solemn declaration made in this House that this gentleman is an active political leader while at the same time he is an employee of the government. My right hon. friend stated in this House in 1896, and again in 1897. in my hearing, that if any gentleman in the employ of the government desired to devote his time to politics, he would guarantee that he would have the whole

of his time to devote to politics. Why does he not carry out that promise with respect to Mr. Bertrand, and give him the whole of his time to devote to political matters, to which he now devotes so much attention, if the affidavits read in the House to-day are correct. My hon. friend the Minister of Public Works was good enough to lecture my hon. friend from Jacques Cartier with respect to statements made by my hon. friend in this House. I really thought it was most delicious to hear that lecture coming from the hon. Minister of Public Works, especially when I remember that in 1898 he told the House that he desired to be perfectly frank with it in regard to certain statements made in the public press about him, and that he would tell the House how he came to purchase La Pat-rie newspaper

that Mr. Greenshields had certain moneys of the Liberal party in his hands, and that by means of those moneys that paper was purchased. I have here the hon. gentleman's evidence, if he likes to question it, in which it appears that on the witness stand he stated that Mr. Green-shields had not any money of the Liberal party in his hands, and that my hon. friend was not frank to the House, but that Mr. Greenshields had endorsed notes for my hon. friend.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OP PUBLIC WORKS.

That is the old story. I will discuss that with my hon. friend.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I trust my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works will not get excited. My hon. friend the acting Postmaster General is inclined to be severe upon my hon. friend from Jacques Cartier, because he allowed thirty days, he says, to pass, and has not made an apology to the Deputy Minister of Labour. Well, it is something like four years since my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works made these statements to the House.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OP PUBLIC WORKS.

I said what was true then, and what is true now.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

My hon. friend stated in the House on that occasion that he intended to be frank with the House ; and I have his sworn testimony here in which he said he was not frank with the House.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OP PUBLIC WORKS.

I never said that.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

I will read the evidence :

Q. Do you mean that you were not quite frank in this statement, because you were afraid the Tory press would lie?-A. Yes, they have lied so much about me-not the whole of them, some of them are decent.

Q. Then, the fact that you were not quite frank prevented the Tory press from lying ?-A. No, not to the full effect, I am afraid.

My hon. friend does not take back tbe statement that lie was not frank but lie says it did not produce the desired effect. Now, it really is delightful to hear a lecture from my hon. friend under these circumstances, when four years have elapsed, during which he has not apologized to the House ; and now he cannot apologize, because there is a new parliament-the error of my hon. friend is irreparable ; and yet I have not heard my hon. friend the acting Postmaster General- call attention during those four years to the lamentable default of my hon. friend the Minister of Public Works in not making that very necessary apology to this House. In conclusion, I desire to say that I think it would be well in the public interest if the hon. the acting Postmaster General and Minister of Labour should at some time explain to the House, in the interests of Mr. King,! why it happened that Mr. King, during his sojourn in Valleyfield, consorted only with gentlemen who were active workers in the Liberal cause.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland

Liberal

Hon. Mr. SUTHERLAND.

I would be glad to explain it now. The statement is utterly without foundation. I asked Mr. King, and he states that there is not one word of truth in the statement that he only consorted with Liberals. On the contrary, he never had an interview with any politicians while he was there.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Can the hon. gentleman state what prominent Conservatives he consorted with ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland

Liberal

Hon. Mr. SUTHERLAND.

The members of the Cotton Company and the employees of that company were the only persons with whom he consorted while he was there.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

1 understand that he did make a visit i:i the lirst place to the tailor ; then he saw Mr. Bertrand ; and then he called on my hon. friend the present member for Beauharnois ; and notwithstanding the disclaimer of my hon. friend the acting Postmaster General, I think, under the circumstances in which Mr. King went to Valleyfield, it would have been just as well if he had not visited the committee rooms of either political party ; and I think my hon. friend from Jacques Cartier did not put it at all too strongly to the House when he stated that he thought that was imprudent and injudicious conduct on the part of Mr. King.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
LIB

Robert Franklin Sutherland

Liberal

Hon. Mr. SUTHERLAND.

These are not the statements we are finding fault with, but the statements made on the 3rd of April.

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
?

The PRIME MINISTER.

Is that all the apology my hon. friend has for the hon. member for Jacques Cartier ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink
CON

Robert Laird Borden (Leader of the Official Opposition)

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BORDEN (Halifax).

Does my right hon. friend want to apologize for his hon. friend behind him ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-VALLEYFIELD RIOTS.
Subtopic:   MACKENZIE KING,
Permalink

May 7, 1901