April 29, 1901

CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

I would like to understand what right the Imperial Bank has to

a monopoly of the word ' Empire.'

Topic:   SOVEREIGN BANK OP CANADA.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

I do not suppose it has any absolute monopoly of the word ' Empire;' but the words 'Empire' and ' Imperial ' are near enough alike to leave some ground for criticism, and the parties, rather than have any controversy on the subject, have consented to make the change.

Bill reported, read the third time, and passed.

Topic:   SOVEREIGN BANK OP CANADA.
Permalink

WESTERN ASSURANCE COMPANY.


Bill (No. 124) respecting the Western As-surace Company-Mr. McCarthy-considered in committee, and reported. The MINISTER OF FINANCE (Hon. W. S. Fielding) moved the third reading of the Bill.


IND

William Findlay Maclean

Independent Conservative

Mr. MACLEAN.

Do you not think that this Act should be made general so that other companies may avail themselves of it, and have the same rights with regard to the insurance business ? A new company has been given this right and now two insurance companies are applying by private legisla tion for a similar right. Why not make a general Act or put a clause in one of these Bills providing, that other companies, on making application to the Governor General in Council, may be given the same right.

Topic:   WESTERN ASSURANCE COMPANY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

The number of companies desiring the privilege

is very small. I do not think tliat after this Bill passes we will be likely to have any applications from any other companies.

Motion agreed to ; Bill read the third time, and passed.

Topic:   WESTERN ASSURANCE COMPANY.
Permalink

IN COMMITTEE-THIRD READING.


Bill (No. 125) respecting the British America Assurance Company.-Mr. McCarthy.


THE ANCIENT ORDER OF FORESTERS.


House in committee on Bill (No. 120) respecting the Subsidiary High Court of the Ancient Order of Foresters of the Dominion of Canada.-Mr. Heyd.


L-C

Andrew B. Ingram

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. INGRAM.

When this Bill was before the committee the other day, 1 asked for postponement until Friday in order that I might get a reply from certain gentlemen who were opposed to its provisions. I did not receive the expected telegram in sufficient time to attend that committee, and therefore the Bill was passed through tne committee and reported to the House before I could make the views of these gentlemen known.

In the first instance I received a letter asking me to thoroughly investigate this proposed legislation. I did so, and can see no objection to it, but I have letters here from a committee, representing 295 members of that organization, asking me to move the six months' hoist; and I am placed in a delicate position of having to move it at the third reading, although I can find no reasonable objection to the measure. But in order to protect myself in the future, I feel obliged to read the correspondence and place it on ' Hansard,' so that in case I should be mistaken in my judgment, hon. gentlemen will be in the position to determine from the correspondence whether or not they should vote for or against the six months' hoist.

St. Thomas, Ont., April 19th, 1901.

Dear Sir,-An application to the parliament of Canada is pending on behalf of the Subsidiary High Court of the Ancient Order of Foresters for further legislation. The executive council claims that it has been compelled, in the best interests of the order, to apply for this legislation, but many of the membership of the order consider that the executive council, in attempting this, is taking upon itself a greater responsibility than it would fairly be expected to assume, also that the application is being made somewhat hastily and without fairly enlightening the subordinate courts as to the details and scope of the proposed legislation.

A circular letter, of which the inclosed is a copy, was received by Court Elgin, No. 5863, and at its last regular meeting a committee was appointed to communicate our views to you, so that you might do what you can to further them, and guard our interests. We feel that as of right, particulars of the circumstances which would render. it necessary to apply for legislation and the remedies or advantages sought to be afforded us by legislation should have been communicated, and a draft or copy of the proposed Bill should have been Mr. FIELDING.

sent to all subordinate courts a reasonable time before the meeting of parliament.

Without being provided with these the subordinate courts cannot determine whether the rights of our membership are being curtailed or assured to us. All the subordinate courts elect delegates for the Subsidiary High Court meeting, to be held in August next, when the present executive council will be eligible for re-election, and if the pending Bill be given a six months' hoist, all matters rendering further legislation desirable and the nature and scheme of relief to be provided by such legislation could be fairly considered by a most representative body.

Court Elgin was established in St. Thomas in 1873, and has a membership of 295. We feel confident that you will endeavour to serve our best interests.

Yours respectfully,

Topic:   THE ANCIENT ORDER OF FORESTERS.
Permalink

W. E. YOUMANS,


Secretary. A. B. Ingram, Esq., M.P., Parliament Buildings, Ottawa, Ont. I have stated that I could not see that this legislation in any way injured the Ancient Order of Foresters. But notwithstanding that, I received this circular and a letter which I will also read. The circular is as follows : Toronto, April, 2, 1901. Dear Sir and Brother, You are requested to read at the next meeting of your court the following notice :- ' Notice is hereby given that application will be made to the parliament of Canada, at its present session by the Subsidiary High Court of the Ancient Order of Foresters for an Act : ' 1. Declaring that-all assets, interests, rights, credits, effects and property, real, personal and mixed, belonging to the Subsidiary High Court of the Ancient Order of Foresters, incorporated under the provisions of chapter 167 of R. S. O., 1877 (the Provincial Corporation), were from and after the 13th day of June, 1898, vested in the Subsidiary High Court of the Ancient Order of Foresters, incorporated by an Act of parliament of Canada, chapter 91 of the statutes of 189S (the Dominion Corporation). ' 2. Declaring that members in the said provincial corporation, on the said 13th day of June, 1898, became on the said date members in the said Dominion corporation, and subject to the constitution and laws of the said Dominion corporation from time to time in force.


' LOUIS F. HEYD, K.C.,


' Solicitor for Applicant. ' Dated at Toronto, this 18th day of March, 1900.' This legislation is sought to supplement the legislation obtained at Ottawa in the year 1898. I beg to say that the proposed legislation in no way affects any of the funds of the subordinate courts. Kindly sign and return the inclosed acknowledgment. Yours fraternally, (Sgd.) W. WILLIAMS, Permanent Secretary. This circular was sent to this court that I speak of, dated 2nd April, but received some little time after that. Before I read the letter, let me read this reply which I got by telegram :



St. Thomas, Out., April 25, 1901. A. B. Ingram, Parliament Buildings, Ottawa. Press for six months' hoist because insufficient notice, &c. Delegates from all subordinate courts meet August. Recent Ontario legislation displeasing many. Am writing. S. W. E. YOUMANS, EDGAR SANDERS. That was the telegram I did not receive in time to present to the committee last Friday. Now, the last letter I received reads like this : St. Thomas, Ont., April 25, 1901. A. B. Ingram, Esq., M.P., Parliament Buildings, Ottawa, Ont. Dear Sir,-Replying to your kind favour of yesterday, I may say that I will wire you to-night as suggested by you. There is no doubt at all that this matter of proposed legislation was brought on quite suddenly and our members here as well as members of other courts who have written to some of us feel that the executive were attempting to rush through the Bills, namely, that one which has been passed in the local House, and the one Which is now pending before the Dominion House. The first notice which we received here of the Bill in the local House was through the public press and the notices which were sent out on behalf of the executive council did not reach us until the matter was well under way at the parliament buildings. The assurance which you have received in Ottawa that a large delegation attended before the Ontario legislature and after they had heard the discussion of the Bill left for their homes entirely satisfied, we feel is not strictly correct. A letter containing that assurance was received by me some days ago. Inclosed you will find front page of the Ancient Forester, the official organ of the order, in which there is no doubt that the executive council have endeavoured to put this new legislation lately obtained from the Ontario government, in its most favourable light. Upon perusing this sheet of the Ancient Forester, you will see that even that organ does not claim that all those who attended went away entirely satisfied. Since the obtaining of the Act of parliament of Canada, chap, 91, 1898, a number of things in our order have not been as satisfactory to the members at large as they were before the obtaining of that Act, and until sufficient time is allowed to permit the full discussion and complete understanding of the reason why a Bill to supplement that Act is being applied for, and the full scope of the present Bill, we feel that nothing can be done. As mentioned to you in my former letter, the Subsidiary High Court meeting will be held in August. There will be present representatives from all the subordinate courts, and then matters can be fully threshed out, and until after the meeting has been held we think it would be in the interests of the order that the legislation that has been asked for be not granted Yours sincerely,


W. E. YOUMANS,


Secretary. I need not read the rest of this, as it contains references personal to myself. I received a letter from the hon. member for West Toronto (Mr. Clarke), who stated that J. S. Williams had been an officer in the Ancient Order of Foresters. I find that on reference to the official sheet of that organization that Mr. J. S. Williams was one of the gentlemen who attended the provincial legislature for the purpose of opposing the Bill passed by that legislature. I find in the letter of the hon. member for West Toronto that Mr. Williams does not oppose this legislation in Ottawa, which is on similar lines to that passed in the provincial House. I place these on ' Hansard ' for the purpose of showing the objections raised by the gentlemen who are opposed to the legislation. So far as I can see personally, there is no particular objection to the legislation as it stands before this House. But, notwithstanding, I feel obliged to move the six months' hoist.


CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROTJLE.

I opposed the hurried way in which this Bill was being railroaded through the committee. I had indirect information that there was something objectionable about the Bill, though I was not informed what it was. As a matter of principle, I object to the way these Bills are put through with short notice. It is not likely that the order would suffer if longer time were given. But, to bring some excuse for presenting a Bill to the House without giving regular notice always creates in my mind the impression that there is something behind it. There may be cases where exceptional circumstances justify bringing in a Bill without the regular-notice. If this is one of them, it should be possible to show that considerable damage to the order will result if the legislation is not granted. But, we should be very slow to push such legislation through without the regular notice. It was stated in committee that there were no objections to this Bill, that everybody was satisfied. But it now appears that such is not the case. This is only another example of the wisdom of making haste slowly with these Bills that, for one excuse or another, are brought into the House without regular notice being given.

Topic:   W. E. YOUMANS,
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF FINANCE.

The matter having been disposed of by the committee, and especially as the hon. gentleman who has charge of the Bill is not. here, I think we should be hardly justified in throwing out the Bill. The third reading can be postponed, which will leave an opportunity for further consideration. The only objection that was raised in my hearing was, that this company had done business at certain rates, and that later on had increased its rates. That is likely to occur under this system, and I think it can hardly be said to be an objection to this Bill. The right of any person in the institution is not * affected. The Bill transfers them from a provincial to a federal jurisdiction, but it does not. so far as we can see, affect any personal interest. Whatever interest a member has now, he will have after the Bill is passed. Under that impression, the commit-I tee passed the Bill. I think it would be a

pity to have a six months' hoist prevail, especially as the opinion of the hon. gentleman (Hr. Ingram) who moved it is really favourable to the Bill.

Topic:   W. E. YOUMANS,
Permalink

April 29, 1901