April 26, 1901

CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

My hon. friend is putting words in my mouth I did not use. I did not refer to the words being in, but to the fact that the enumerators had done their work. I was referring to the fact that the enumerators had done their work, and they had done their work-

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

On what authority ?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

The commissioners of the electoral division in which the enumerators were doing their work. The commissioners of the electoral divisions got their instructions from the provincial commissioners, of which Ontario has four, Quebec four, and each of the other provinces one. These commissioners came to Ottawa and were thoroughly instructed by the commissioner here. They spent four days receiving instructions in this city, and then went down to their provinces and instructed the electoral district commissioners. These in their turn instructed the enumerators.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON

Thomas Simpson Sproule

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. SPROULE.

I understood the hon. gentleman to say that there were more re-

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

On my knowledge of my own county, and I presume that other counties in Ontario were the same. They finished their enumeration on the average in about two weeks in the west riding of York, and they had districts there that were, presumably, of the same character and extent as those of the ordinary rural constituency in Ontario. As to the circular letters to which the hon. minister has referred, I would like to ask whether the letter which was sent by Mr. Cote to the clergymen of the province of Quebec had received his sanction and approval before it went out at all ?

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

It received the same approval as did the other circulars he sent out. I did not see the words, but I approved his sending it.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

The hon. gentleman (Hon. Mr. Fisher) stated that he knew nothing about either until it was sent out-[DOT]

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

The hon. gentleman's statement is incorrect.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

No, I am exactly correct. The minister made that statement.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

The hon. gentleman is entirely wrong.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

The hon. minister will please permit me to go on with my statement. It will not do the hon. gentleman any harm to observe the rules of the House. He stated to the House that he had not seen that circular until after it had been sent out

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

Hear, hear.

Mr. WALLACE-but that he saw it after it had been sent out and approved of it. And he says that the same thing occurred with regard to the circular letter sent out to the clergymen of the province of Quebec. If the contents had been improper, it might have been necessary to send a telegram, as he did to enumerators in Ontario warning them against paying attention to the circular that they were supposed to fill out in the interests of a political party. Now, it was stated publicly the other day by an ex-premier of this Dominion, Sir Mackenzie Bowell, that in the previous census of 1891 and in the census of 1881, there was not a single circular sent out that had not the approval of the Governor in Council. So careful were the government of that day to see that everything was done properly, that every circular was submitted not merely to the minister, but to the council. That is the proper way. But the hon. minister tells us to-day, as he told us the other day, that he did not see these circulars at all, and had no knowledge of the contents of them. He says to-day he knew in a general way what they were to be. He stated the other dav that lie did not see the first circular till after it was sent out, but he had approved of it. Why did he not see it before it went out ? He has told us about the commissioners for the provinces seeing the commissioners for the districts and they in turn seeing the enumerators and giving them instructions. He may tell that to the House, but I know the contrary with regard to the west riding of York. I was at home last week, and I was informed there that the enumerator had not got his papers till either Saturday or Alonday morning, that he had received no instructions and that he had entered upon his work without having a clear idea of what he had to do. He came to our mill and asked for information as to what he had to do. He said :

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
LIB

Sydney Arthur Fisher (Minister of Agriculture)

Liberal

Mr. FISHER.

I cannot put your mill down on the census, I cannot make any record of it, because the regulations that are given us require that live men must be employed in an establishment before we can count it as a manufacturing establishment. The one who was giving the information could not say that there were five men employed there, because there were only about four men employed. Here is a manufacturing industry that turns out ?30,000 or .$40,000 worth of flour or other products in a vear, yet is not recorded in the census because of the absurd regulation that there must be five men employed in a manufacturing establishment before any record can be made of it.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The PRIME MINISTER.

Hear, hear.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

And the Prime Minister approved of that sort of thing. There is no record of that mill in the census to-day, and, to that extent, the record of the census is defective and the business is not done in a way that the Minister of Agriculture lias told us, though he says it is moving along like clock-work that each one gets his instructions from somebody else and that these instructions are duly carried out. We should have had all these documents laid on the Table so that we could have gone over them before the 1st of April. Then, if the hon. minister could not give his personal supervision to the matter, the members of the House might have given some assistance. I say the government have neglected their duties in these matters, and, to the extent that I have shown at least, the census will be misleading or worthless.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

I will not refer to the hon. gentleman's misquotation of myself and his correction and subsequent reiteration of his first statement. Unfortunately, that kind of thing is customary with the hon. gentleman and I will take no further notice of it. He states facts with regard to enumerators in his own county which have a direct bearing upon the report of the commissioner in that county. The commissioner has reported that he gave personal instructions to every enumerator a week before the census commenced. I suppose, therefore, that the work was done in the way I have outlined.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
CON

Nathaniel Clarke Wallace

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. WALLACE.

And the census enumerator stated that he had not got the papers till Saturday or Monday-the Monday when he should have started on his work.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

I have stated what the commissioner has reported.

Mi-. WALLACE. I have stated the facts.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink
?

The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE.

The hon. gentleman has stated what somebody else told him. I have stated what an official has reported to the department.

Topic:   SUPPLY.
Permalink

April 26, 1901