February 22, 1901

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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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LIB

Rodolphe Lemieux

Liberal

Mr. LEMIEUX.

I would like to ask the Minister of Marine (Hon. Sir Louis Davies) if he has received any petitions this year from the people of Magdalen Islands asking that the steamer Stanley should make one trip to the islands during the month of December. As the hon. minister knows well navigation is closed between Magdalen Islands and the main land at the beginning of Sir LOUIS DAVIES.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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L-C

Edward Hackett

Liberal-Conservative

Mr. HACKETT.

I wish to ask the Minister of Marine and Fisheries (Sir Louis Davies) why it is that when the Stanley was at Summerside on the 22nd of December no facilities were provided by which she could carry the mails, passengers and freight to Cape Tormentine. The Stanley remained there for ten days without doing any service and she was withdrawn at the very moment when she would be of some utility in keeping up communication. The engineers reported that when the board ice formed at Cape Tormentine it would be available for the handling of freight, and when the board ice did form the Stanley was taken away and was of no possible utility in keeping up communication between Summerside and Cape Tormentine in New Brunswick. I wish to ask the minister (Sir Louis Davies), why that occurred and why ar-

rangemehts were not made for the maintenance of that communication as we expected it would be.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

It is true that the Stanley was detailed to make the experiment of crossing from Summerside to Cape Tormen-tine in the month of December last. She would have gone earlier to her berth at Summerside but for the reason I have explained to the hon. gentleman from 'Gasp6, her boilers had to be repaired after the summer's work on the fishery service. The very day that the work was finished she proceeded to Pictou, coaled there and went straight to Summerside to make the experiment of keeping open the winter passage between that and Cape Tor-mentine. I had informed the board of trade of Summerside some time previously that there were no terminal facilities at Cape Tormentine, and that I thought it was inadvisable to make the experiment until these facilities were provided. They, however, pressed upon me very strongly that the attempt should be made and I submitted the matter to Captain Finiayson, of the Minto, who has had some twenty-two years experience, and to Captain Brown, of the Stanley, and they advised that it was possible that if the board ice formed for half a mile outside of Tormentine pier they might be able to land on the board ice, and they advised that the experiment might be made. On their report I sent the vessel there. The board ice did not form; they had to land near the pier. The pier was in such bad condition that the ballast had fallen out and prevented the bow of the vessel getting near it. There was no way therefore to land freight if they had carried it. and until my friend the Minister of Public Works (Hon. Mr. Tarte) is able to get that pier repaired it would be impossible for the Stanley to utilize it as a terminus. I am in hopes that this season the minister (Hon.- Mr. Tarte) will be able to repair the pier. The Stanley made the experiment of crossing and recrossing every day and successfully for a time, but the smallpox broke out in the district near to Cape Tormentine. Passengers would not travel through the region where the smallpox was supposed to be, and a very large number of people in Prince Edward Island were averse to the service being maintained through an infected district of that kind. The mails were not, and ought not be sent, that way, and after the Stanley had made a number of trips without carrying freight, passengers, or mails, there was no use continuing her on the route any longer and she was ordered to go to Pictou. At Pictou there was an enormous congestion of freight which one steamer could not move, and the idea of sending the Stanley to Pictou was to give daily communication with Georgetown, one boat running each way. We were very successful in moving the freight, and until the other day when

we got into this terrible storm there never was a time when the winter communication was maintained so admirably as it has been this winter. I am in hopes that next winter the terminal facilities at Tormentine will be -so improved that possibly the Stanley will be able to utilize it, and continue the experiment between Summerside and Tormentine.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

I am at a loss to find that there was any special grant available up to July 1, 1900, for the purchase of the Shamrock. I find that there is no mention made of it in ' Hansard.'

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

I find on inquiry from my advisers that I was correct in the statement that there was a grant.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

Then it is unfortunate for the hon. gentleman (Sir Louis Davies) that the discussion on it should be entirely eliminated from ' Hansard.'

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

Has the hon. gentleman (Mr. Bennett) got the supplementary estimates ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

I have ' Hansard ' in which the discussion would have appeared.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

Has the hon. gentleman got the supplementary estimates ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
Permalink
CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

I have not under my hand a copy of the supplementary estimates; but there was no discussion on the question in the House at all. It follows that nothing more has been heard of it until we find this reference in the Auditor General's Report of this year ; and of course a member of the House could not know of anything that transpired between the Auditor General and the minister until it did appear in the Auditor General's Report. The Auditor General took exception, it would seem, to the payment of this amount, whether because the boat had not been purchased in open market or by contract or for some other reason ; and I think it is fair to ask for an explanation why, in the face of that letter of November 7, the amount was paid over, assuming that it has been paid.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
Permalink
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

The amount was paid over, as I think my hon. friend will see, long before that objection was made.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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CON

John Graham Haggart

Conservative (1867-1942)

Hon. Mr. HAGGART.

Why was the objection made ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

The hon. gentleman knows why the Auditor General takes exception. It is a matter of faith and duty with him.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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CON

Matthew Henry Cochrane

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. COCHRANE.

He was all right when we were in power.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

The ex-Minister of Railways said he was not.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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CON

Matthew Henry Cochrane

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. COCHRANE.

But you said he was.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

The Auditor General's objection, as I understand it, is that he did not think the Deputy Minister of Marine had sufficient knowledge to give the certificate required by the 33rd section of the Audit Act. We differed with him, that is all.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
Permalink
CON

William Humphrey Bennett

Conservative (1867-1942)

Mr. BENNETT.

Was the boat purchased in an open sale ?

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
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The MINISTER OF MARINE AND FISHERIES.

Yes. The purchase is a most excellent one,- and I do not think any one would .question it.

Topic:   SUPPLY-THE BUDGET-INQUIRY.
Subtopic:   J. L. McDOUGALL, A.G.
Permalink

February 22, 1901